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Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit Historical Module 1 – Decision at Elst» Forums » Rules

Subject: Steeple and LOS rss

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Mark Shryock

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I have set up the DaE campaign game and need clarification on what appears to be a conflict in the rules:

DaE Steeple rule states LOS is visible to every hex except the shadow hexes of orchards and buildings.

Orchard rules state non-same level LOS through multiple in-season Orchard hexes is blocked.

Even if the Steeple LOS rule overrides the Orchard LOS rule why would LOS be blocked to shadow hexes?

...or am I missing the forest because of all these fruit trees?
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Ruben Rigillo
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In the SK modules, In-season orchards block LOS between all different elevation hexes.
In DaE they added (at last!) the concept of Blind Hex.
So one in-season orchard hex block LOS just to the hex DIRECTLY BEHIND it (the same works for buildings).
If that hex is another in-season orchard, it blocks LOS to the hex directly behind it too.
So if you have a row of 4 in-season orchards, you will have LOS just to the FIrSt of them AND to the 6th hex of the row, the 5th being blocked by the last orch hex.
This happening if the firer is on the Steeple of course (and vice versa)
....all those apples protect somehow!!!
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M. van H.
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Qwirz is right. The rationale for the rules, I suppose, is something like this: in SK you only two basic elevations: 'ground' level and 1-level hills. When you look down from such a low hill, an in-season orchard below will block LOS drawn through it. In DaE, however, a unit in a steeple is on a much higher elevation and can therefore more easily see beyond an in-season orchard; it still cannot, however, see into the hex directly behind the orchard - i.e. the Blind hex Qwirz refers to.
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Mark Shryock

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AHA!! aha! So, the statement in the DaE CG Rulebook...

"A unit in the Steeple has a line of sight (LOS) to every hex on the board except" shadow hexes...is incorrect, or at least misleading? There are so many orchard hexes in DaE, that to use the phrase "LOS to every hex except" to exempt not only traditional shadow hexes, but also those that end up being an orchard hex in the shadow of another orchard hex, is understating the exception. Of course, this is a critical concept that needs clarification (at least in my feverish mind) when it comes to the effectiveness/reach of the German OBA.

I realize I am probably making apple sauce for one by asking for this clarification. I really do appreciate any additional comments/correction to this response that you can provide.
Sincerely,
DGH

 
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Eoin Corrigan
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I think the reader of the DaE rules should note that there is no distinction between an orchard and an orchard hex. As such, every orchard (hex) will cast a shadow which blocks los from the steeple location. It seems straightforward and clear to me.
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Michael
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Eoin Corrigan wrote:
.. It seems straightforward and clear to me.


No its blocked
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Perry Cocke
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DiceGodsHeretic wrote:
I have set up the DaE campaign game and need clarification on what appears to be a conflict in the rules:

DaE Steeple rule states LOS is visible to every hex except the shadow hexes of orchards and buildings.


Correct.

DiceGodsHeretic wrote:
Orchard rules state non-same level LOS through multiple in-season Orchard hexes is blocked.


This is the standard SK rule, except that it does not take _multiple_ in-season Orchard hexes to block non-same level LOS; one will do nicely. As Maarten points out, in standard SK, there is are only level zero and level one, so there is at most only one level difference.

In DaE, the steeple (being up high) can see "over" obstacles to everything except blind hexes directly behind obstacles. (The only "obstacles" in woods-less Elst are buildings and orchards, with the latter only blocking non-same level LOS.)

DiceGodsHeretic wrote:

Even if the Steeple LOS rule overrides the Orchard LOS rule why would LOS be blocked to shadow hexes?


LOS is blocked to blind hexes because geometry indicates you have to be much, much higher than an obstacle to see directly behind it. Even the steeple is not that hight.

I hope this helps.



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Mark Shryock

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Mixykym,
Exactly! Your quip has greater meaning to making my point than just making me chuckle...

Word choice in explaining rules exceptions should always be carefully selected. I estimate the DaE board, between orchards and buildings, is 1/4 full of exceptions to the Steeple LOS rule. No small consideration if you misconstrue the exception to include just the shadow hexes on the 'back' edges of the large multi-hex orchards, as I did at first.

I understand now. Thank all of you for your answers. The dead horse at my feet is now a bloody pulp.
DGH



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Michael
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We few,we happy few,we band of brothers;For he today that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother: be he ne’er so vile;And gentlemen in England now-abed Shall think themself accurs’d they were no here That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.
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Mark Shryock

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Perry,
Thank you for your confirmation of the explanations. I have learned, in my short time back in ASL, that your word is final regarding ASL rules, so I do appreciate your responding to my question. I now realize my question was 'hair-splitting', but my original reading of "LOS to every hex" on page DE1 seemed to be so all-inclusive of the entire board.

Since you responded while I typed my previous 'last response' email, and I respect your taking time to respond, I had to acknowledge it.
DGH
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