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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Monster's Hoard - Encounter I rss

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Carsten Summer
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I can't find a clear answers in this forum for this encounter.

Can heroes block 2x2 size reinforcements or not ?
The (german) quest text is quite clear (heroes can block)
, but i am very surprised with the unofficial FAQ here
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10663536#10663536 (they can not?)

Also:
Can the door be closed ?

There were translation differences before. Perhaps someone can send me the english rules for door and reinforcements for this quest.



 
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Aswin Agastya
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Without exceptions clearly written in scenario, I don't think it's ever been possible to deny entry. Just spawn on the nearest possible space.

Even in one scenario when heroes can jump off the waterfall, I never allow monster to block their jump. Jumping heroes just end up on one of the nearest possible space.

Not sure about the door, don't have the books close with me right now.
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Paul
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Agreed. Whenever anything is placed on the map, unless it explicitly states that it can't be placed anywhere else, it's always placed in the nearest available space. This often applies to reinforcements, but can also apply to things like summoning the Reanimate familiar (if the Necromancer has no empty adjacent spaces, the Reanimate gets placed in the nearest available empty space.)

I'll have to check the quest guide later to see about the monster's hoard, specifically.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Interesting. We might need to send a question in about Honor Among Thieves Encounter 2 then. It has this passage: "At the start of each overlord turn, he may place 1 volucrix reaver or 1 monster from his open group on 1 of the spaces marked with an "X," respecting group limits. If a monster's base cannot fit entirely on the marked spaces, it cannot be reinforced."

Can large monster reinforcement (or perhaps even small monster reinforcement with all four heroes and/or Familiars) be blocked? I have always played that it could here.
 
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Aswin Agastya
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Darren, that one is stated explicitly on the encounter/quest/scenario. So yes, it can be blocked there.
 
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Paul
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Sevej wrote:
Darren, that one is stated explicitly on the encounter/quest/scenario. So yes, it can be blocked there.


Agreed. The default is "if it can't be placed here, it's placed in the nearest available empty space." However, the case in honor among thieves (and monster's hoard encounter 1, the phrasing is the same) is "if it can't be placed here, it can't be placed at all.
 
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Carsten Summer
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i agree.
but Adam Sadler's response in the FFG Sez Thread
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10663536#10663536
is very confusing
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Aswin Agastya
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It just means that you can't reinforce using 6x4 monsters, since 6x4 is smaller than the entrance tile.

Also, it's not heroes' blocking that prevent the monster from being placed there, but the tile size.
 
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Paul
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Good find, I was not aware of this. Turns out the reinforcement text is just redundant with the monster choices text earlier in the rules "you can't pick a monster group larger than 2x2." Since that's been clarified, then yes- the ettin (or whatever it is) can be placed in the nearest space to the entrance as usual is the heroes are blocking the entrance.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Sevej wrote:
Darren, that one is stated explicitly on the encounter/quest/scenario. So yes, it can be blocked there.


Right, but the Monster's Hoard E1 uses similar wording, and Adam stated that reinforcement could not be blocked. I did always interpret it that reinforcement could be blocked in Honor Among Thieves E2, but it's ambiguous enough that it might be worth sending a question to FFG, is what I'm saying.

"If a monster's base cannot fit entirely on the marked spaces" could just be a way of saying "If a monster's base is greater than 2x2."
 
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Aswin Agastya
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Dexter345 wrote:
Sevej wrote:
Darren, that one is stated explicitly on the encounter/quest/scenario. So yes, it can be blocked there.


Right, but the Monster's Hoard E1 uses similar wording, and Adam stated that reinforcement could not be blocked. I did always interpret it that reinforcement could be blocked in Honor Among Thieves E2, but it's ambiguous enough that it might be worth sending a question to FFG, is what I'm saying.

"If a monster's base cannot fit entirely on the marked spaces" could just be a way of saying "If a monster's base is greater than 2x2."

Yeah, I'm not sure why they went with the wording circus.

So I finally opened my LoR quest book. I think Honor Among Thieves E2 is similar case with Monster's Hoard. Instead of tile size, it just uses a graphic to describe 2x2 size since the tile size is bigger than 2x2. But your previous interpretation works too. Imagine it as bigger monster cannot crawl through that hole. Yes, this one is worth asking, maybe while referring to the Adam's resolution on Monster's Hoard. Both possible resolutions make sense.
 
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Paul
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There are certain quests that I am entirely certain reinforcement can be blocked in. I think it's "enduring the elements" (but in any case, it's specifically Elementals) and the quest guide has unique spaces they reinforce in- it says that if they can't be placed entirely on the unique spaces, they can't be placed. That's certainly not referring to monster size, since it's not an open group. I don't have my LoR quest guide with me, but does it say "must fit on the ___..." or "must be placed entirely on____..." ? I would think the latter sentence would imply blocking is possible. The former, on the other hand, matches the phrasing for the Monster's Hoard.
 
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Carsten Summer
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i asked FFG again, aswer below
Question:
Quote:
In Shadow Rune Monster's Hoard encounter 1, if a hero stands on the entrance title. Can a 2x2 Merriod reinforce or not ?
Quest text seems quite clear (=it can not reinforce because there are not enough empty spaces (german wording, don't have the english version).
But there is an answer from Adam Sadler in 2012 which says the complete opposite. Similar question for "Honor Among Thieves Encounter 2". Is the answer of Adam still intact ?


Quote:
Based on the previous ruling, a 2x2 Merriod can reinforce in the closest empty space if a hero stands on the Entrance during the first encounter of “Monster’s Hoard.”

In encounter 2 of “Honor Among Thieves” the ruling will remain consistent, a 2x2 Merriod (for example) would be reinforced in the closest empty space to the unique spaces, but a monster like a Shadow Dragon could not be reinforced. Compare the reinforcement wording of this quest with the reinforcement wording of LoR's “Fury of the Tempest” encounter 2, the use of “cannot” versus “must.” A monster that cannot fit in the unique spaces (is unable to because it is larger than a 2x2) versus a monster that must fit in a unique space (“all occupied spaces must be marked”) lead me to side with the previous ruling.
This question was a tricky one.
Kara Centell-Dunk
Creative Content Developer


hm, i don't like it, but it's an answer.
i think monster/s hoard is very hard for heroes with early merriods reinforce
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