Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Reds! The Russian Civil War 1918-1921» Forums » Rules

Subject: Garrison participation in combats rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sergi Morraja

Barcelona
Catalonia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The rule 20.5 (p17) under Characteristics states:

"Garrisons may not move or attack, they may only defend. Garrisons do not participate in combat if stacked with other units."

If garrisons are stacked with other units:
a) Is "in combat" meaning they do not participate in "attack combat" or "defensive combat" or both?
b) In whatever combat they do not participate, are they ignoring the combat results also?


Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lawrence Hung
Hong Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
a) They don't participate in attack but they may defend together with other stacked units. They may choose not to participate in defence if there are other units in the same hex.

b) Yes.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergi Morraja

Barcelona
Catalonia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thankyou.

Lawrence Hung wrote:
a) They don't participate in attack but they may defend together with other stacked units. They may choose not to participate in defence if there are other units in the same hex.


Your response makes sense, although it doesn't seem to be exclusively derived from rule 20.5. Where does it say the garrisons have the option to participate or not with other stacked units in a defense combat? My own searching into the manual have only found this relevant sentence from 11.1 Combat general rules:

"... All defending units in the attacked hex must participate.

EXCEPTION: Garrisons (20.5) may not attack and are ignored in defense if stacked with other units.
"

If your response to my b) question is yes and "are ignored" is equivalent to "do not participate", this has serious implications on gameplay, i.e., a city defended by a garrison stacked with other units can never be taken in a single combat. At least two combats are needed, the first to eliminate/retreat normal units and another one to eliminate the garrison.

Do you agree?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lawrence Hung
Hong Kong
Wan Chai
Hong Kong
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agree Sergi. I don't have the rulebook at hand when I attempted to answer your question just based on 20.5 without knowing 11.1. Thus reminds me how tricky it was to answer rule question. The rules should be read in its entirety not individually. The word "may" is especially a tricky word in my experience. Sometimes it means you have the option. Sometimes it just means the only option allowed to and you must follow.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergi Morraja

Barcelona
Catalonia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Lawrence Hung wrote:
Agree Sergi. I don't have the rulebook at hand when I attempted to answer your question just based on 20.5 without knowing 11.1. Thus reminds me how tricky it was to answer rule question. The rules should be read in its entirety not individually. The word "may" is especially a tricky word in my experience. Sometimes it means you have the option. Sometimes it just means the only option allowed to and you must follow.


You are right. I can imagine the difficulty to answer correctly this question without searching throughout the entire manual. In the future when asking rules questions, I'll try to provide all related rules that I'm aware of.
With respect the "may" meanings, I will study the word, because English is not my first language and it's a common word in most wargame rulebooks.
Thanks again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Better late than never. I will add my opinions.

sergi1916 wrote:
The rule 20.5 (p17) under Characteristics states:

"Garrisons may not move or attack, they may only defend. Garrisons do not participate in combat if stacked with other units."

If garrisons are stacked with other units:
a) Is "in combat" meaning they do not participate in "attack combat" or "defensive combat" or both?


Both.

Quote:
b) In whatever combat they do not participate, are they ignoring the combat results also?


Not necessarily, here is an excerpt from 11.5

Quote:
NOTE: If a disorder result causes all defending unit(s) to be
eliminated, eliminate any garrison units in the defender’s hex.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sergi Morraja

Barcelona
Catalonia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
drmark64 wrote:
Better late than never. I will add my opinions.

You are welcome. Never is late for a 2001 superb game!

drmark64 wrote:

sergi1916 wrote:
b) In whatever combat they do not participate, are they ignoring the combat results also?


Not necessarily, here is an excerpt from 11.5

Quote:
NOTE: If a disorder result causes all defending unit(s) to be
eliminated, eliminate any garrison units in the defender’s hex.

Perfect! I missed that point. Thankyou.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.