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Subject: Capital Punishment and prejudice in America (racism) rss

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Bimmy Jim
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I usually have an opinion on any given political issue, but I've never really agreed with either side when it comes to capital punishment... partly due to how it's issued.

I think Ron Paul said it best:

Quote:
I believe it has been issued unjustly. If you are rich you get away with it. If you’re poor and you’re from the inner city, you’re more likely to be prosecuted and convicted.


Too many times you see and hear poor black/hispanic people getting issued the death penalty.. where middle class white guys who commit the same (or more heinous) crimes get a plea bargain or settlement, which takes the death penalty off the table.

For this reason, (and the fact that mistakes can happen), I am strongly against the death penalty... however, in a better world where prejudice didn't exist - I might consider it a valid option for the worst (and repeating) criminals.

I guess what I'm asking is: would capital punishment be a different debate if it weren't issued unjustly/unfairly?
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jeremy cobert
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BimmyJim wrote:

Too many times you see and hear poor black/hispanic people getting issued the death penalty.. where middle class white guys who commit the same (or more heinous) crimes get a plea bargain or settlement, which takes the death penalty off the table.

For this reason, (and the fact that mistakes can happen), I am strongly against the death penalty...


what a childish notion. In order to get sentenced to capital punishment , you need to have done something quiet heinous. We now have have DNA testing and multiple other ways of determining innocence. In the USA please tell me how many people have been put to death, only to later discover they were innocent with in the last 20 years..... I can answer that . ZERO !!!!

when you take capital punishment off of the table, you condemn more innocent people to death at the hands of criminals.

 
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Bimmy Jim
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jeremycobert wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:

Too many times you see and hear poor black/hispanic people getting issued the death penalty.. where middle class white guys who commit the same (or more heinous) crimes get a plea bargain or settlement, which takes the death penalty off the table.

For this reason, (and the fact that mistakes can happen), I am strongly against the death penalty...


what a childish notion. In order to get sentenced to capital punishment , you need to have done something quiet heinous. We now have have DNA testing and multiple other ways of determining innocence. In the USA please tell me how many people have been put to death, only to later discover they were innocent with in the last 20 years..... I can answer that . ZERO !!!!

when you take capital punishment off of the table, you condemn more innocent people to death at the hands of criminals.



I'd say about 4% of all convictions:

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230

.. or how about 10 of the most famous wrongful executions:

http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infam...
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Yes, if capital punishment were administered completely fairly, the debate would be substantially different as one of the chief criticisms (albeit by no means the only one) would be gone. Other fundamental issues would remain but the practical issues would be reduced to when and if to apply the death penalty.
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jeremy cobert
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BimmyJim wrote:
I'd say about 4% of all convictions:


Nope. Reread what I said. How many people were put down, only to later find they were innocent ?

I agree that innocent people have rarely been incorrectly convicted. But we have several stop gaps and huge improvements in DNA evidence gathering. but there will always be a risk to it, vs the risk of ensuring that murderess are free to commit heinous crimes.

I think we can also agree that murderers who get life sentences also go on to murder again, often times while in prison.

Assuming you maintain your same illogical reasoning, Car accidents also kill and injure innocent people, perhaps we should limit the speed on highways to 30mph as we cant risk killing an innocent person.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:

Too many times you see and hear poor black/hispanic people getting issued the death penalty.. where middle class white guys who commit the same (or more heinous) crimes get a plea bargain or settlement, which takes the death penalty off the table.

For this reason, (and the fact that mistakes can happen), I am strongly against the death penalty...


what a childish notion. In order to get sentenced to capital punishment , you need to have done something quiet heinous. We now have have DNA testing and multiple other ways of determining innocence. In the USA please tell me how many people have been put to death, only to later discover they were innocent with in the last 20 years..... I can answer that . ZERO !!!!

when you take capital punishment off of the table, you condemn more innocent people to death at the hands of criminals.

Yes I mean look at the murder rate in Canada.

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jeremycobert wrote:

what a childish notion. In order to get sentenced to capital punishment , you need to have done something quiet heinous.


NO. That's childish.

Innocents have been put to death.

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Ken
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I think the debate would change, but I'm unsure about how substantial the change would be. For some, the issues is not the application of the law but its mere existence. If you take the position that "purposefully killing a person who is not an immediate threat" is wrong (which many do), then the state should not be executing people for any reason.

It would certainly be better if justice were administered without the disparities due to race or the financial well-being of the accused. But that only resolves some of the issues tangled up in capital punishment.
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jeremycobert wrote:
DNA evidence gathering. .


DNA is not fool proof.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-testing-foolproof/

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1003.bobelian...

 
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Michael Carter
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jeremycobert wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:
I'd say about 4% of all convictions:


Nope. Reread what I said. How many people were put down, only to later find they were innocent ?

I agree that innocent people have rarely been incorrectly convicted. But we have several stop gaps and huge improvements in DNA evidence gathering. but there will always be a risk to it, vs the risk of ensuring that murderess are free to commit heinous crimes.

I think we can also agree that murderers who get life sentences also go on to murder again, often times while in prison.

Assuming you maintain your same illogical reasoning, Car accidents also kill and injure innocent people, perhaps we should limit the speed on highways to 30mph as we cant risk killing an innocent person.


Determining how many innocent people were wrongfully executed in America is an impossible number to attain since courts don't spend time reviewing cases in which the defendant was already executed.

Here is a list of some possible wrongful executions. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent
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Borack
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BimmyJim wrote:
I usually have an opinion on any given political issue, but I've never really agreed with either side when it comes to capital punishment... partly due to how it's issued.

I think Ron Paul said it best:

Quote:
I believe it has been issued unjustly. If you are rich you get away with it. If you’re poor and you’re from the inner city, you’re more likely to be prosecuted and convicted.


Too many times you see and hear poor black/hispanic people getting issued the death penalty.. where middle class white guys who commit the same (or more heinous) crimes get a plea bargain or settlement, which takes the death penalty off the table.

For this reason, (and the fact that mistakes can happen), I am strongly against the death penalty... however, in a better world where prejudice didn't exist - I might consider it a valid option for the worst (and repeating) criminals.

I guess what I'm asking is: would capital punishment be a different debate if it weren't issued unjustly/unfairly?


Lopsided in the count perhaps...(but so is crime in general) But still deserved..So another "While Black " thread..??
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jeremy cobert
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mlcarter815 wrote:
Determining how many innocent people were wrongfully executed in America is an impossible number to attain since courts don't spend time reviewing cases in which the defendant was already executed.

Here is a list of some possible wrongful executions. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent


So just because there could be a problem is reason enough to take action. We have no actual cases of men killed on death row whom were later proven to be innocent but just the fact that it could happen, is reason enough to take action.....

I really wish the moonbats were this excited to fix voter fraud (which never happens)except in every election.

I am starting to see a patter here with the moonbat, Support the criminal in any issue !!!!

Stay classy my abetting friends , stay classy !
 
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jeremycobert wrote:


So just because there could be a problem is reason enough to take action. We have no actual cases of men killed on death row whom were later proven to be innocent but just the fact that it could happen, is reason enough to take action.....
!


what a god damn idiot

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/15/carlos-de-luna-exec...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/elizabethlopatto/2014/04/29/how-...

At least 4 percent of all people who receive the death penalty are innocent, if a new study is right.


Johnny Garrett of Texas was executed in February 1992 for allegedly raping and murdering a nun. In March 2004 cold-case DNA testing identified Leoncio Rueda as the rapist and murderer of another elderly victim killed four months earlier.[17] Immediately following the nun's murder, prosecutors and police were certain the two cases were committed by the same assailant.[18] The flawed case is explored in a 2008 documentary entitled The Last Word.

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jeremycobert wrote:

I really wish the moonbats were this excited to fix voter fraud (which never happens)except in every election.


this god damn moron is more concerned about a non-existing problem then that of killing innocent people

typical xtain-tard, more concerned about those in a womb, then those outside the womb
 
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Joe Arridy (April 15, 1915 – January 6, 1939) was a mentally disabled American man executed for rape and murder and posthumously granted a pardon. Arridy was sentenced to death for the murder and rape of a 15-year-old schoolgirl from Pueblo, Colorado. He confessed to murdering the girl and assaulting her sister. Due to the sensational nature of the crime precautions were taken to keep him from being hanged by vigilante justice. His sentence was executed after multiple stays on January 6, 1939, in the Colorado gas chamber in the state penitentiary in Canon City, Colorado. Arridy was the first Colorado prisoner posthumously pardoned in January 2011 by Colorado Governor Bill Ritter, a former district attorney, after research had shown that Arridy was very likely not in Pueblo when the crime happened and had been coerced into confessing
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Michael Carter
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jeremycobert wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
Determining how many innocent people were wrongfully executed in America is an impossible number to attain since courts don't spend time reviewing cases in which the defendant was already executed.

Here is a list of some possible wrongful executions. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent


So just because there could be a problem is reason enough to take action. We have no actual cases of men killed on death row whom were later proven to be innocent but just the fact that it could happen, is reason enough to take action.....

I really wish the moonbats were this excited to fix voter fraud (which never happens)except in every election.

I am starting to see a patter here with the moonbat, Support the criminal in any issue !!!!

Stay classy my abetting friends , stay classy !


The chance of being wrongfully executed isn't insignificant. Even DNA testing has a margin of error.

I'd rather incarcerate people for life on the chance that they could be innocent than rush them off to Death Row just to save a few bucks.

If you're so concerned about voter fraud, which you seem to think is a significant number of votes, why aren't you concerned with wrongful executions?
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pronoblem baalberith
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Justice is like a spider web. It catches flies and moths but the wasps go right through.

The state should not have the right to condemn death. Wrong to begin with but it does violate the 8th Amendment... and we have and will continue to put innocent people to death as long as we have the sentence as an available option. Like I said, I don't agree with it... but I guess I am okay with this, we are ignorant barbarians as a nation, might as well have the death penalty - plus Obama recently expanded it to executive order and without trial for three US citizens and nobody complains about that. I am in the minority.

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jeremy cobert
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mlcarter815 wrote:

The chance of being wrongfully executed isn't insignificant. Even DNA testing has a margin of error.


true, but like i said, why not move the speed limit on the highway down to 25mph. that way we can eliminate all deaths on the road. there is a risk that it could happen. Fortunately it has not happened. I admit, some people have been wrongly convicted but the percentages are just too low to give all of the truly guilty criminals a free pass to go on killing sprees.

mlcarter815 wrote:
I'd rather incarcerate people for life on the chance that they could be innocent than rush them off to Death Row just to save a few bucks.


"rush" ? really ? most people on death row die of old age long before they get the hot-shot

Quote:
the average time that elapses between sentence and execution has risen from six years in the mid-1980s to 16.5 years now.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/02/ec...

mlcarter815 wrote:
If you're so concerned about voter fraud, which you seem to think is a significant number of votes, why aren't you concerned with wrongful executions?


I have concerns with both. I do find it strange that you support the criminals in both cases. The funny part here is we have actual cases of voter fraud, you have no cases of innocent men being put to death. your argument is purely theoretical and based on emotion.

 
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jeremycobert wrote:
So just because there could be a problem is reason enough to take action. We have no actual cases of men killed on death row whom were later proven to be innocent but just the fact that it could happen, is reason enough to take action.....

I really wish the moonbats were this excited to fix voter fraud (which never happens)except in every election.

I am starting to see a patter here with the moonbat, Support the criminal in any issue !!!!

Stay classy my abetting friends , stay classy !


I would say the fact that there "could be a problem" is enough to take action here. As stated before, there's not a lot of cases where the state executes a prisoner and then goes back to check to make sure they got it right. Since individuals have been released after finding out they were innocent, I'm uncomfortable with putting people to death. Life in prison? Sure.
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jeremy cobert
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galad2003 wrote:
I am against the death penalty. I am 100% pro-life. No abortions, no death penalty, no wars unless you are attacked.


WTF ?!?!?!
Quote:
no wars unless you are attacked
did you just graduate high school ? What the fuck kind of a statement is that ?

so you support war "if you are attacked" ?. what if someone attacks your family ? are you still pro life and refuse to shoot the attacker ? If so, god bless you....I feel sorry for your family.

Not all killing is murder, but all murderers should be killed if we want a better society.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
I admit, some people have been wrongly convicted but the percentages are just too low to give all of the truly guilty criminals a free pass to go on killing sprees.

So philosophically, that puts you opposite Ben Franklin and in line with Pol Pot and Otto von Bismarck. That's not the team I'd get behind, but okay.

Quote:
you have no cases of innocent men being put to death. your argument is purely theoretical and based on emotion.

Cameron Todd Willingham.
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Lee Fisher
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So, death penalty for voter fraud?
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galad2003 wrote:
I am against the death penalty. I am 100% pro-life. No abortions, no death penalty, no wars unless you are attacked.


I am too. It is consistent. However, the state is in the war and death penalty business where abortion is the individual. I am pro-life in that along with reducing abortion we do things like sex education, provide contraception, allow gay marriage & adoptions, family leave for mothers and fathers and full socialized medical care for everyone (also a pro-life stance, health care should be a right) so that women that are pregnant can get all the care they need for unwanted pregnancies. Also, after working in an NICU for years, I would attempt to limit procedure like IVF. Fertility is a tricky issue, I think that people should be adopting when they cannot have children their own. IVF results in multiple pregnancies with some 'selective abortions' for twin, triplet, quad, etc... and other risks for the infant like premature birth and spontaneous abortions.

 
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jeremy cobert
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damiangerous wrote:


timely references ! It also puts me on the same team as Bill and Hillary Clinton, which is actually more embarrassing.

damiangerous wrote:


Again, Todd Willingham case while unusual has still not proven his innocence. And if you want to make a case for blocking jail house snitches, then I am all ears.


I do have a serious question for the pro-murder crowd.

Is there any crime that a person can commit that they forfeit their life ?
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
Is there any crime that a person can commit that they forfeit their life ?


There are several, but they forfeit their life by spending it imprisoned.
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