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Dust Tactics: Revised Core Set» Forums » General

Subject: The new Rulebook rss

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Norlo Zapata
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Greetings fellow gamers.

I'm interested in buying the new rulebook but first I wanted to know some opinions on the rules changes.

It feels more balanced now?

Does the book worth buying?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.
 
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Martin Larouche
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Norlo28 wrote:
Greetings fellow gamers.

I'm interested in buying the new rulebook but first I wanted to know some opinions on the rules changes.

It feels more balanced now?

Does the book worth buying?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.


If you look down older threads, you'll find that about half the BGG Dust Tactics population do not want anything to do with the new version.

I am one of those people.

V2 increased the speed of units and the range of guns (almost 2/3 bigger). This means that for a similar experience, you need 2/3 bigger table (my table is 6'x4' and isn't big enough for V2 for the games I want to play). We found this doesn't increase tactics and strategies in the game over the older version. It makes the game more chaotic, but not more tactical.

LOS are more complicated to figure out. With V1, there is never any question about wether a unit can see another one. In V2, it's a tad more complex to figure out (though not that much). However, combined with the increased overall range of guns, it creates situations where it's not all that clear.

Reactive fire in V1 was used as a last effort to try to stay alive. In V2, it promotes luck over tactics. It's become too easy to achieve. You can outflank an enemy using brilliant tactics, just to have your opponent shoot at you first... and you die despite having the superior position. You could do the same with the V1 rules, but it was much harder to achieve.

... and my biggest problem with V2:
The buckets of dice required. They significantly increased the number of dices required for a single attack. In V1 you had to throw, on average, 7 or 8 dices for a single attack. In V2, you have to throw, for the same attack, an average of 14 to 16 dices.
Some units in V2 require you to throw over 30 dices... it's to the point it's become ridiculous.
My biggest problem with V1 was that some rare units, like the Winter Child hero, could throw over 20 dices... V2 enhanced that problem twice over. Now half my units can throw over 20 dices...

I find having to throw that many dices dumb game design.

The only good part of V2 (imo), is that it consolidated the ruleset in a single book. The Tactics V1 rules are all over the place in several campaign books... and they added facing to walkers which I like (but that alone does not make me want to play it).

In the end, they created a more complex game... but not a more fun one, nor one that requires more tactics or strategy. It's more complex for the sake of being more complex.
And i'm not entirely sure they improved the balance of units. I think they fixed some units while breaking others... so it's a wash in that regard (imo).
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Sebastian Grab
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I played the old edition a lot and loved it, so just like a lot others here, I thought that the changes were bad. And than I gave it a try I don't think I will be going back to v1. Most of the changes others hate, I adore. So:

- movement - I find the games faster and I feel like having more options, more decision making, which I like. I don't think bigger maps are needed. Mayby if you comper to the square scenarios of Blue Thunder, but there isn't so mant of those.

- new line os sight is great, now vechicles can have cover too and it's seems more logical/less artifical. It seems more like Warfare and that's a good think in my book.

- updated units are a blast, skills are much more interesting and heroes have so many more of them. Stuff like Officer skill gives you a lot of options and heroes feel like heoroes now, they are just so powerfull. I also like how they have thematic sanse - zombies are armor 1 now, but they are still so hard to kill!

- rective fire works great, I actually find it LESS luck dependend, as that single die throw could break your day and whole plan in v1. Here, you just have to take in consideration the fact that the other player will probably have reactive fire and play around it. In v1 you had to be very lucky to use it effectivly, so it was always worth taking the chance. In v2 - not so much.

- bucket of dice - I don't mind that. I think that it's actually worse design when your game depends on very little dice, as with more dice you will get average throw more often, making it, again less luck dependend. Not very, but still.

The biggest problem - the campaigns from v1 are not compatible with v2 so it's hard to find interesting scenarios/keeping balance if wanting to play them. Requires some work.

I recommend to at least try them. I really disagree that the game is less tactical or less fun.
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Norlo Zapata
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Thanks for your replies, guys.

The V2 rules doesn't look that bad. Maybe I should give em a try.
 
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I'm pretty much in agreement with Martin regarding the V2 rules.

Battlefront really screwed up a lot of the elegance from V1.

The V1 dice were so much easier to read. Just with a glance, you could tell how many hits you had. Now you have to spend 30 seconds scrutinizing the various symbols on the dice to figure out how many hits you got.

The same with the new LoS rules. In V1, it was far easier to tell if you had LoS. You just had to measure from the center of one square to the center of another. Now you have keep moving the measuring tape around to see if measuring from one tiny part of your square will get you LoS to an enemy unit.

And the faster movement was really a terrible idea. In V1, you really had to plan out your moves before hand, and you could get really screwed if you miscalculated what your opponent would do. In V2, though, the units move so fast and fire so far, that it's far easier to recover from mistakes.

Also, V2 really screwed up artillery. Most artillery units do such pathetic damage for their cost now, that there's hardly any point in taking them.
 
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Tom Shydler
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The v2 rules are fine. I was VERY skeptical when the new rules were announced. I liked v1. I have played more v2 games than v1 now, and I do not have any problems with v2. The game play is not all that different. Yes, there are two or three things I wish they had done another way, but definitely not anything that breaks the game or reduces the enjoyment. Play it.
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Thomas Ryan
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question...I just got the "revised core set" from FFG are these V1 rules or V2?
 
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Sebastian Grab
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tpryan01 wrote:
question...I just got the "revised core set" from FFG are these V1 rules or V2?


That's v1. Rules for v2 can be found here:

http://www.gf9-dnd.com/Docs/Dust/DTR.pdf
 
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Martin Larouche
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tpryan01 wrote:
question...I just got the "revised core set" from FFG are these V1 rules or V2?


If it's a product from FFG, it's the first edition, or V1.
If it's a product from Battlefront, it can be either V1, V2, or even a V1.5 in the case of the new starters boxes that are not compatible, rule-wise, with either version... and welcome to the confusing market that has become Dust Tactics .
 
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