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Subject: BENGHAZ....eh? rss

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Josh
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So we're up to 7 investigations done now the NIC being the latest to say 'yeah, it was a shame, but no one did anything wrong.' with Republicans agreeing, chairing, and generally being involved. We still have the super special committee with sprinkles on it, but they're running out of wiggle room. Anyone else notice how reports exonerating folks don't get much press?I suppose it's too boring for the media.
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Boaty McBoatface
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That the liberal media for you, pushing the conservative agenda.
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Ken
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I've seen it get press, but it's not going to generate as much attention for the talking heads. It's far less interesting air time for someone to stand up and say "Well, you were all wrong and the administration didn't..." than it is "The administration is actively lying and covering up..."

Not as many ratings, clicks to blogs, or links to stories means not as much discussion, hot air, and faux outrage.
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jeremy cobert
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Shadrach wrote:
So we're up to 7 investigations done now the NIC being the latest to say 'yeah, it was a shame, but no one did anything wrong.' with Republicans agreeing, chairing, and generally being involved. We still have the super special committee with sprinkles on it, but they're running out of wiggle room. Anyone else notice how reports exonerating folks don't get much press?I suppose it's too boring for the media.


I am still a little unclear, was it a poorly acted video that upset the Muslims or was it an act of terror ? Also is the director of that video still in prison ?
 
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Josh
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jeremycobert wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
So we're up to 7 investigations done now the NIC being the latest to say 'yeah, it was a shame, but no one did anything wrong.' with Republicans agreeing, chairing, and generally being involved. We still have the super special committee with sprinkles on it, but they're running out of wiggle room. Anyone else notice how reports exonerating folks don't get much press?I suppose it's too boring for the media.


I am still a little unclear, was it a poorly acted video that upset the Muslims or was it an act of terror ? Also is the director of that video still in prison ?


If you're unclear perhaps you should go back and read the news, it's all there. As for the filmmaker, you can look that up too. The internets are cool.
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J
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jeremycobert wrote:
Also is the director of that video still in prison ?

No.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Koldfoot wrote:
This seems to have been the House Intelligence committee reviewing the intel related to the event.

They found the CIA competent, even heroic.

Wooohooo.

Was that ever in question?

Don't even try to jump through hoops to bolster your fantasy. The answer is no.

What all 7 investigations?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
So we're up to 7 investigations done now the NIC being the latest to say 'yeah, it was a shame, but no one did anything wrong.' with Republicans agreeing, chairing, and generally being involved. We still have the super special committee with sprinkles on it, but they're running out of wiggle room. Anyone else notice how reports exonerating folks don't get much press?I suppose it's too boring for the media.


I am still a little unclear, was it a poorly acted video that upset the Muslims or was it an act of terror ? Also is the director of that video still in prison ?
Why are the two mutually exclusive?
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Koldfoot wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
This seems to have been the House Intelligence committee reviewing the intel related to the event.

They found the CIA competent, even heroic.

Wooohooo.

Was that ever in question?

Don't even try to jump through hoops to bolster your fantasy. The answer is no.

What all 7 investigations?


7?

Better take another look.

Not all 7 are finished and the preliminary reports seem less than helpful.
Well maybe that should have been your original point.

Also you are correct there have not been 7, there have been..
1 FBI (ongoing, but this is a criminal investigation into the perpetrators)
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (finished, "that the interagency coordination process on the talking points followed normal, but rushed coordination procedures and that there were no efforts by the White House or any other Executive Branch entities to 'cover-up' facts or make alterations for political purposes.")
House Armed Services Committee (ongoing)
House Foreign Affairs committee (ongoing)
House Intelligence committee (ongoing)
House Judiciary committee (Finished concluded no deliberate wrongdoing by the Obama administration)
House Oversight and Government Reform committee (ongoing)
State Department Accountability Review Board (finished, whilst critical does not say there were lies of a cover up)
Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (finished, whilst critical does not say there were lies of a cover up)
House Select Committee (finished, concluded that there was no deliberate wrongdoing by the Obama administration in the 2012 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi,[291] and that news briefing given by the administration reflected the conflicting intelligence assessments in the days immediately following the crisis)

And we have another, that is 11 separate investigations, and all those that have finished have not accused (or have explicitly stated the opposite) Obama of any criminality or deception (it may in fact be more, there are reports that four of the house committees found no evidence that Obama lied or deliberately allowed anyone to die, but I cannot find which ones). So even being generous that is 5 committees that have not accorded with the GOP message.
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Moshe Callen
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Koldie;

I think what happened at Benghazi was horrible and that ideally someone in the administration ought in principle pay the price for it. Nevertheless, I am forced to concede that nothing happened for which anyone in the administration could be held legally culpable. The only way that anyone could be held to account would be if they decided to take responsibility. I just don't see that happening.
 
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Welcome Rolling Stones
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Yeah, but what about Benghazi? I heard this was the worst thing since Watergate.
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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
Not all 7 are finished and the preliminary reports seem less than helpful.

How many does it take?
 
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Ken
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Koldfoot wrote:
Not all 7 are finished and the preliminary reports seem less than helpful.


Yes, seven investigations have been finished. The only one that's still out is the "Select Committee's." None of the seven have reached any conclusions that there was anything done wrong.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Not all 7 are finished and the preliminary reports seem less than helpful.

How many does it take?
The one that backs up what they claim.
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J
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perfalbion wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Not all 7 are finished and the preliminary reports seem less than helpful.


Yes, seven investigations have been finished. The only one that's still out is the "Select Committee's." None of the seven have reached any conclusions that there was anything done wrong.

I guess that answers my question: more than 7...
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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To ease confusion (and because my Google skills are not up to it) can we have a full summery of all 7 finished investigations?
 
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Ken
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Congressional investigations (ETA: Unless noted, the investigation is complete and a report has been issued):

1. House Oversight & Government Reform
2. House Armed Services
3. House Foreign Affairs
4. House Intelligence
5. House Select Committee (still under way)
6. Senate Foreign Affairs
7. Senate Intelligence
8. Senate Homeland Security & Government Affairs

Just about all that have been finished criticized the security at the compound in some way. Literally none have found anything that was done wrong either as events unfolded or in the aftermath.
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Boaty McBoatface
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perfalbion wrote:
Congressional investigations:

1. House Oversight & Government Reform
2. House Armed Services
3. House Foreign Affairs
4. House Intelligence
5. House Select Committee (still under way)
6. Senate Foreign Affairs
7. Senate Intelligence
8. Senate Homeland Security & Government Affairs

Just about all that been finished criticized the security at the compound in some way. Literally none have found anything that was done wrong either as events unfolded or in the aftermath.
So only 1 is still under way? So I would not ask if the others side can dispute this?
 
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Les Marshall
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jeremycobert wrote:


I am still a little unclear


Patently. Despite significant efforts herein.
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Josh
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Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Koldie;

I think what happened at Benghazi was horrible and that ideally someone in the administration ought in principle pay the price for it. Nevertheless, I am forced to concede that nothing happened for which anyone in the administration could be held legally culpable. The only way that anyone could be held to account would be if they decided to take responsibility. I just don't see that happening.


I ain't on the Benghazi bandwagon, but I distinctly remember the last report being completely misrepresented in RSP.

As is this one. Although not so dramatically.

This report just looked at the intel.

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

The military and CIA reports have been released, plus a couple by the FBI and state dept. both of which seem rather dubious.

So far the preliminary reports, plus the last one we discussed in RSP add fuel to the fire if you are able to look at what they say, rather than the media's spin.

This report doesn't say much we didn't know.


Can you be specific about exactly what you mean by:

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

In what way were lives being played with specifically? Any time troops are sent into combat, amabassadors are sent to a hostile region, or anyone is asked to do anything for a gov't lives are being 'played with'.

I seem to remember us going to war 'With the army we had, not the one we wanted.' at one time.

So, what is it that rises above standard governing? If this sounds hostile it isn't per-se, I just would like to know what the specific 'scandal' is.
 
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Moshe Callen
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I think it amounts to the fact that someone or several someone(s) did what they had to do but not ultimately as much as needed to be done so that a situation arose which frankly should have have been allowed to happen.
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Ken
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Koldfoot wrote:
The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.


Ummmm, no? The scandal was that the administration ignored credible intelligence that an attack was coming, refused to take action when it occurred, and then actively engaged in a coverup after it had occurred. Or is that what you meant by "playing politics?"
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Josh
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Koldfoot wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Koldie;

I think what happened at Benghazi was horrible and that ideally someone in the administration ought in principle pay the price for it. Nevertheless, I am forced to concede that nothing happened for which anyone in the administration could be held legally culpable. The only way that anyone could be held to account would be if they decided to take responsibility. I just don't see that happening.


I ain't on the Benghazi bandwagon, but I distinctly remember the last report being completely misrepresented in RSP.

As is this one. Although not so dramatically.

This report just looked at the intel.

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

The military and CIA reports have been released, plus a couple by the FBI and state dept. both of which seem rather dubious.

So far the preliminary reports, plus the last one we discussed in RSP add fuel to the fire if you are able to look at what they say, rather than the media's spin.

This report doesn't say much we didn't know.


Can you be specific about exactly what you mean by:

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

In what way were lives being played with specifically? Any time troops are sent into combat, amabassadors are sent to a hostile region, or anyone is asked to do anything for a gov't lives are being 'played with'.

I seem to remember us going to war 'With the army we had, not the one we wanted.' at one time.

So, what is it that rises above standard governing? If this sounds hostile it isn't per-se, I just would like to know what the specific 'scandal' is.


I thought you were the one portraying yourself as the expert.

Are you just a knee jerk apologist without understanding the issue?

Why yes. I guess you are.


No idiot, get your dick out of that moose long enough to read my post and you'll see I was asking your *opinion* on what you considered the scandal, because just vague 'they did a bad' bullshit is Daishi caliber child sploodge.
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Donald
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Don't listen to him. You leave your dick in that moose until you & the moose are both satisfied.

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Josh
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Koldfoot wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Koldie;

I think what happened at Benghazi was horrible and that ideally someone in the administration ought in principle pay the price for it. Nevertheless, I am forced to concede that nothing happened for which anyone in the administration could be held legally culpable. The only way that anyone could be held to account would be if they decided to take responsibility. I just don't see that happening.


I ain't on the Benghazi bandwagon, but I distinctly remember the last report being completely misrepresented in RSP.

As is this one. Although not so dramatically.

This report just looked at the intel.

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

The military and CIA reports have been released, plus a couple by the FBI and state dept. both of which seem rather dubious.

So far the preliminary reports, plus the last one we discussed in RSP add fuel to the fire if you are able to look at what they say, rather than the media's spin.

This report doesn't say much we didn't know.


Can you be specific about exactly what you mean by:

The scandal, as I understand it, is O and H were playing politics with American lives.

In what way were lives being played with specifically? Any time troops are sent into combat, amabassadors are sent to a hostile region, or anyone is asked to do anything for a gov't lives are being 'played with'.

I seem to remember us going to war 'With the army we had, not the one we wanted.' at one time.

So, what is it that rises above standard governing? If this sounds hostile it isn't per-se, I just would like to know what the specific 'scandal' is.


I thought you were the one portraying yourself as the expert.

Are you just a knee jerk apologist without understanding the issue?

Why yes. I guess you are.


No idiot, get your dick out of that moose long enough to read my post and you'll see I was asking your *opinion* on what you considered the scandal, because just vague 'they did a bad' bullshit is Daishi caliber child sploodge.


Well. Perhaps if you read my posts you would realize this is not an issue I am much informed on, as I freely admit.

I simply read the news and realized the content does most certainly not match up to the headline.

I'm relying on you for background. I don't care enough to look. You want to act as though you understand the issues.

I'm just pointing out the article doesn't say what you are saying it says.

Attack that.

I could be wrong.

Wow me with your genius.


Well, step one I didn't post an article link so there's that. Step two the controversy trumleted has always been a combination of: The administrstion had clear proof of a specific danger and chose not to act before the attack, the administration specifically directed nearby resources not to act to aid the consulate, and the administration wilfully and deliberately presented information that it knew was wrong after the fact. Basically the gossipmongers throwing shit at the wall to sed what will stick.

The various reports have rebutted these claims in the general and specific. What has been found is what the administration itself has admitted from early on: People made judgement calls on security beforehand using the info they had, those judgement calls while not criminal did end uo being wrong. Foreign politics, especially in a hotbed country with a shakey new regime and a security force made of regional militia,is not math. You rarely connect dots or plug in solid data. Instead you weigh odds, risks, outcomes, and goals. Sometimes, you end up being wrong.

Continuing on, there was no order to stand down during the atack. No aid was denied to the consulate by the administration. Lastly the administration had lots of conflicting intel post-attack and in our 24hr news cycle they shoved people in front of cameras with bad information. It was not a deliberate choice to knowingly mislead. People have gone before cameras with bad information before, and they will again. It's very much a truth of the way our society ingests it's info through the media now. In the absence of a ststement, for even the shortest amount of time, media and talking heads will just make shit up to fearmonger, push ratings, or push an agenda. As a result you get people talking before they are ready just to counter that phenomenon.

In the end what harm did the post-attack bad-info do? None, it was corrected, by the administation itself, as facts became clear. The event was already over. I'd say the upshot was some idiot fox heads or tea party twats didn't get liqoured up and kill a store owner in a 'funny hat' in retaliation.

So there you go. Controversy addressed and debunked.

You can still say someone made a bad call, everyone even the admin agrees on that. The point is that it was an honest mistake anyone could have made. It is just in a venue where those are the stakes, and the people involved and working at that consulate *knew* that.
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