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Are there any good resources (like books, articles, or videos) for someone wanting to learn how to design abstract games in particular? Thanks for replying.
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christian freeling
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Mr_Saturn wrote:
Are there any good resources (like books, articles, or videos) for someone wanting to learn how to design abstract games in particular? Thanks for replying.

There's my little essay How I invented games and why not.
The preface starts with a warning:
"This is not a tutorial on how to invent abstract games. I wouldn't encourage anyone. Nor is it a comparative investigation, because inventors cannot escape the suspicion of bias. At most it may serve as a basis for either or both, for whoever decides to embark on this course."

There's also inspiration to be found with some of the more prolific inventors in this forum. I'd mention Luis Bolaños Mures and Nick Bentley in particular, but there are many others with interesting views on the subject.
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Moshe Callen
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My own approach begins with studying in depth historical abstract board games. What fascinates me is the minimal changes in rules and equipment that make something into a new game or conversely which do not. With combinations of these minimal changes, one can develop extremely diverse games. My personal theory is that by by a series of such minimal incremental changes one can make any one abstract game from any other. What makes the process more interesting is restricting allowed changes to only certain types.

So what does this do for designing abstract games? Simple. Determine a game by minimal changes from a good public domain historical abstract which to your knowledge has never been published or played and which you think should be a good game. Try it out. If it works as a game, you've created a new abstract. There is a neverending list of possible games that can be made this way.
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Rey Alicea
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Mr_Saturn wrote:
Are there any good resources (like books, articles, or videos) for someone wanting to learn how to design abstract games in particular? Thanks for replying.


These may help you...

Mathematical games - Abstract Games by Joao Pedro Neto and Jorge Nuno Silva

Connection Games - Variations on a Theme by Cameron Browne

A Gamut of Games by Sid Sackson



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christian freeling
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Wayne Schmittberger's New Rules for Classic Games and David Pritchard's The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants may also be worth the effort.
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Chris Huntoon
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The one bit of advice I would give is to learn the basic elements of abstract games. There are really only so many ways a piece can move, so many different objectives a game can have, so many types of boards, and so on. Then once of you have a good grasp of the fundamental building blocks, its easier to choose and combine these different elements to form the game you want.
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Mo Bell
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Mr_Saturn wrote:
Are there any good resources (like books, articles, or videos) for someone wanting to learn how to design abstract games in particular? Thanks for replying.


The best way is to ignore what was done until now.
As long as you study and analyze what was done you will be at most a copy-paster.
Erase everything and start thinking otherwise.
Start with games based in one mechanics not more and analyze what could be done (trial-error-trial-error).
Keep in mind that even very known mechanics did not be fully studied. There is ALWAYS some combinations never tried before.
Be imaginative first.
Corrections will always come from the users.
No rule is fully correct in the mind of the designers.
The most important is the idea (new board, or new play arena, new protocol moves, new mechanics, etc...).
No one will help to invent a new and very interesting games.
Look at the abstract game designers : all are copy-pasters.
No one is creating. They are just recycling classical games.
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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Completely and fundamentally disagree. That's like telling someone to be a novelist without ever reading fiction.
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Rey Alicea
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whac3 wrote:
Completely and fundamentally disagree. That's like telling someone to be a novelist without ever reading fiction.


I agree, we stand on the shoulders of gaints.
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Mo Bell
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whac3 wrote:
Completely and fundamentally disagree. That's like telling someone to be a novelist without ever reading fiction.


It is your right to disagree but people like Rimbaud, Verlaine, other writers wrote their best poetry or novels at they were teen?
Ramanujan with a few knowledge of mathematics and few means (only one book offered by british men) produced more theorems than the biggest mathematician of his times.
The more you read about design and designers the more you become as dumb as the "most reknown" game designers.
The worst thing to avoid is to be enslaved by the mainstream.
YOU WILL PRODUCE NOTHING INTERESTING.
Look at what is designed now : COPY-PASTE.
I know that people who are weak designers are trying to find gurus and mentor to make their status significant.
One mathematician who died recently wrote his memories and he was sooner out of his contemporaneous colleagues. Why? because he felt more innovative by working alone than working with the msinstream ideas.
Only little man stand on the shoulders of what he called giants.
Either you are giant and you can make all what was done before equal to zero. Either you are little man and you will try to beg what they call giant to be a little bit bigger.
I`m giant man. You will know it one day.
I do not recognize any guru nor mentor.
I have no God no master.


 
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Mo Bell
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Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.
Look at how some people behave here in this forum.
They are even ready to lick asses.
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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Because no teenager had ever read anything.
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Richard Moxham
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It probably isn't fashionable to say this, but...

...in spite of his tendency to make the inflated or histrionic claim, and to make it at times rather belligerently, Mo's contributions to this forum generally have a kernel of truth in them - not least when he inveighs against derivative material and the disingenuous use of that hoary old cliché about dwarves and giants.

Pour ce que ça vaut, cher collègue, je comprends - et dans une certaine mesure je partage - la frustration que vous ressentez à l'égard de cette communauté. Mais attention - il y a aussi de quoi se réjouir.
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Mo Bell
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mocko wrote:

It probably isn't fashionable to say this, but...

...in spite of his tendency to make the inflated or histrionic claim, and to make it at times rather belligerently, Mo's contributions to this forum generally have a kernel of truth in them - not least when he inveighs against derivative material and the disingenuous use of that hoary old cliché about dwarves and giants.

Pour ce que ça vaut, cher collègue, je comprends - et dans une certaine mesure je partage - la frustration que vous ressentez à l'égard de cette communauté. Mais attention - il y a aussi de quoi se réjouir.


I`m not frustated.
I`m just telling what I have to tell.
That`s it.
Autocongratulations.
Applauding something very mediocre and so on make me angry not frustrated.
The kind of consensus make me always uncomfortable.
Il n`y a pas de quoi se rejouir quand on voit des jeux mediocres qui, en aucun cas, ne prouvent ni un effort (travail tout simplement), ni une imagination particuliere, etre applaudis.
Il y a un climat que je deteste particulierement c`est cet accueil reserve aux createurs inconnus. Un genie de la creation viendrait aujourd`hui meme avec un jeu revolutionnaire serait, au mieux, accueilli froidement.
Bref, je m`en fous, je voulais juste secouer les esprits de leur lethargie profonde.
C`est fait.

Je repars pour longtemps et je peux passer de toute la communaute des createurs car je ne suis ni a la recherche de gloire ni en quete d`un moyen pour arrondir mes fins de mois.

Good luck to you all.

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christian freeling
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Massakra52 wrote:
Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.

Standing on their shoulders?
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Moshe Callen
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Is the publication market cold and unwelcoming to new designers (however good the game) like you say? I'm not so sure. That was not my experience. Admittedly I've only so far made a few euros at it.
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Mo Bell
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whac3 wrote:
Because no teenager had ever read anything.

It is obvious that you need to have a little knowledge in any art or science to create something new.
No need to read 100 books or to play 1000 games to be designer.
When you fail to understand the meaning of what I said then you will surely fail to understand what the users want you to create.
Are you waiting for the users to tell you what is the game they need. It is up to you to understand it.
Even when people say we need so and so you have to understand what they really want not what they say they want.
Go in the desert only rocks sand wood or anything around and you and spend 2 or 3 hours trying to create some games only with what you have.
All what you know is to applaud your "friends" when some "enemy" come.
No one here is honest enough to tell the truth.
La complaisance est reine.

 
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Moshe Callen
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christianF wrote:
Massakra52 wrote:
Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.

Standing on their shoulders?

Long tongue. Kinky.
 
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Mo Bell
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christianF wrote:
Massakra52 wrote:
Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.

Standing on their shoulders?


Stop your speech.
You are dishonest. I told you that before and I will repeat it.
You hate Mark why you can not make the difference between the designer and his games?
YOU ARE DISHONEST.
 
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Moshe Callen
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Massakra52 wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Because no teenager had ever read anything.

It is obvious that you need to have a little knowledge in any art or science to create something new.
No need to read 100 books or to play 1000 games to be designer.

Who claimed you did?
Quote:
When you fail to understand the meaning of what I said then you will surely fail to understand what the users want you to create.

Why should one seek to be a slave of the users?
Quote:
Are you waiting for the users to tell you what is the game they need. It is up to you to understand it.

If you make a great game, people will play it. If you make what people think they want, then indeed you will just make more of the same.
Quote:
Even when people say we need so and so you have to understand what they really want not what they say they want.

As much as I love games, no one needs a new game any more than they need other entertainment. Arte por l'arte.
Quote:
Go in the desert only rocks sand wood or anything around and you and spend 2 or 3 hours trying to create some games only with what you have.

This is where the bulk of traditional historical abstracts come from really.
Quote:
All what you know is to applaud your "friends" when some "enemy" come.
No one here is honest enough to tell the truth.
La complaisance est reine.


I don't see the queen you do. Where are there enemies and why?
 
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christian freeling
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Massakra52 wrote:
christianF wrote:
Massakra52 wrote:
Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.

Standing on their shoulders?


Stop your speech.
You are dishonest. I told you that before and I will repeat it.
You hate Mark why you can not make the difference between the designer and his games?
YOU ARE DISHONEST.

Glad to oblige, too much of anything is good for nothing. That would include honesty.

As for Mark, we feature Oust in the ArenA. If you go over the posts in this forum you will find that I've always been able to distinguish between an inventor and his work. I've recommended Ayu instead of Oust to the Codecup team, because I admire both games, and given that in this respect all things were equal I preferred to recommend a game whose inventor would be honoured to have it selected. So there some bias at work here. Guilty as charged.
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Rey Alicea
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mocko wrote:

It probably isn't fashionable to say this, but...

...in spite of his tendency to make the inflated or histrionic claim, and to make it at times rather belligerently, Mo's contributions to this forum generally have a kernel of truth in them - not least when he inveighs against derivative material and the disingenuous use of that hoary old cliché about dwarves and giants.

Pour ce que ça vaut, cher collègue, je comprends - et dans une certaine mesure je partage - la frustration que vous ressentez à l'égard de cette communauté. Mais attention - il y a aussi de quoi se réjouir.


Once again the pot calling the kettle black...

So it's safe to say Richard that you agree that everyone here is guilty of (copy-paste) derivative works.
 
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Mo Bell
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christianF wrote:
Massakra52 wrote:
christianF wrote:
Massakra52 wrote:
Go lick the feets of those who you call giant.

Standing on their shoulders?


Stop your speech.
You are dishonest. I told you that before and I will repeat it.
You hate Mark why you can not make the difference between the designer and his games?
YOU ARE DISHONEST.

Glad to oblige, to much of anything is good for nothing. That would include honesty.

As for Mark, we feature Oust in the ArenA. If you go over the posts in this forum you will find that I've always been able to distinguish between an inventor and his work. I've recommended Ayu instead of Oust to the Codecup team, because I admire both games, and given that in this respect all things were equal I preferred to recommend a game whose inventor would be honoured to have it selected. So there some bias at work here. Guilty as charged.


You are adding lies to dishonesty.
I can post now what you said in rec group abstracts
But anyone could read it.
Mark himself asked you that you can not make the distinction between him and his games.
 
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christian freeling
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Massakra52 wrote:
Mark himself asked you that you can not make the distinction between him and his games.

Ah, Mark himself. How could I argue?
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Mo Bell
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Reyalicea knows nothing except licking asses.
Hey Reyalicea you will NEVER BE A GAME DESIGNER even if you lick the asses of ALL the game designers.
You know why?
Because you are too weak and you lack of imagination.

My last word until a year or 2.
 
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