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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Thaiden and Bounty Hunter (MoR) rss

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Andrew Moore
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Hi there,

Thaiden hero ability reads:
"Each time you perform an attack, after dice are rolled, you may cancel the attack and inmediately search a search token within 3 spaces of you"
-Does this work only for regular attack actions, or also for any special ability that grants an attack?

-Even if he cancels the attack, does this cost the action? (I hope so!)

-Can he use this ability after the OL has used any ability (OL cards, or Plot Cards) "after dice are rolled"?

-Can he use this ability even if he rolls an "X" on blue die, or if insufficient range is rolled?


Undercover (Bounty Hunter) reads:
"Exhaust this card at the end of your turn if you did not perform an attack that turn"
-If Thaiden roll dice for an attack, but cancels it, can he exhaust Undercover?

Rapid fire:
"[...]Perform an additional attack that targets that monster. Then, if you do not defeat that monster, track that monster"
-Can Thaiden use the Hero ability with this second attack of Rapid Fire, tracking automatically the monster? (if you cancel the attack, the monster won't be defeated)

Wildlander's Running Shot grants 2 movement points every time you perform an attack:
-Can Thaiden declare the attack, cancel it to search 3 spaces away, and still gain those 2 MP? (in the case he didn't use them before rolling dice)


Dark Charm:
-OL use Dark Charm on Thaiden, and decides to perform an attack. Can Thaiden cancel the attack to search?

I see this ability too OP....

Thanks, Andrew
 
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Darren Nakamura
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1. The way it is written, it would work for any ability that grants an attack. If they had wanted to limit it only to normal attack actions, they would have used the phrase "attack action."
2. Yes, it still costs the action (and any other costs associated with the ability like fatigue or exhaust)
3. I would say yes, but I would grant the Overlord the choice to undo his abilities in this case.
4. Yes, and in fact, these are the main reasons Thaiden would use his hero ability. He can take risks at longer range shots if he is near a search token, knowing that the action will not be wasted if he doesn't get the range he needs.
5. This is a good question. My intuition says he would not be allowed to exhaust Undercover in this case, but rules as written might support that he could. I am not sure.
6. Yes. Tracking from Rapid Fire is not dependent on whether the attack happened, it is only dependent on whether the monster was defeated.
7. Another good question. Considering that he could spend the two movement points before performing the attack, I would think that he would be able to spend them after. However, I believe we got a ruling on Running Shot regarding line of sight a long time ago that basically said, "A Wildlander cannot declare an attack outside of line of sight knowing that Running Shot would be enough to get into line of sight," so a similar ruling might apply here too. Another one that I'm not sure about.
8. Hah! I would rule no. Even if rules as written would support it (they might, because other hero abilities have been ruled to stay in effect during Dark Charm), this seems like an obvious abuse of the ability as it is intended.
 
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Paul
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I agree with most of your answers. I don't know that I would allow the OL to "take back" cards used after dice are rolled. The answers to 5 and 7 are linked to the same concept- was the attack "performed" even though it was cancelled- I would say yes, and my reasoning is that "performing an attack" is the trigger for the hero ability. Therefore, he would gain the movement points granted by "Running Shot," and he would not be able to exhaust "Undercover," since the triggers "when you perform an attack" and "if you have not performed an attack" can't both be satisfied.
 
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Andrew Moore
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Thanks for the answers!!
I agree with most of them, but let's take a look to some of them:

3- As Paul said, I don't know if I would let undo the actions. If OL uses a card, he is showing it to everyone, so taking it back could be problematic. And I am imaginig wierd interactions with OL cards or Plot Cards, wich make heroes use another abilities, wich cause some atributte tests, wich cause damage to some miniatures and what not... (everything after rolling dice, and befor using surges, that's possible!!) But only Thaiden has the oportunity to cancel everything and return to the original situatuon? I think the most fair solution would be just letting him the ability as the very first thing after the roll...

4- I thought this at first, too, but now, Thaiden would be virtually capable of always search at 3 spaces, because he only needs a monster in LoS, which is not difficutl at all. And if he has the Heart Seeker (a bow in this expansion, which doesn't need LoS), just need any monster in the map.

8- As you said, rules as written would allow it, but as it is clearly an abuse, this will need an exception in the errata, IMO.

PS. I agree with Paul for 5 and 7.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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AndrewMM wrote:
4- I thought this at first, too, but now, Thaiden would be virtually capable of always search at 3 spaces, because he only needs a monster in LoS, which is not difficutl at all. And if he has the Heart Seeker (a bow in this expansion, which doesn't need LoS), just need any monster in the map.


I think that is intentional. He's a Scout, and Scouts often have abilities that make searching easier.
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Andrew Moore
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Yeah, but that is the basic skill for a Thief, and using fatigue...
 
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Aswin Agastya
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Isn't Thaiden hero ability only allows him to search adjacent space?
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Darren Nakamura
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Yep.
 
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Andrew Moore
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Nope

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/2212737/wuyley

It seems they changed it.
 
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Aswin Agastya
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AndrewMM wrote:


Well, well... yeah this is interesting.
 
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Mikael Forssander
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Hi
A quick question regarding Thaiden's hero ability,
if Thaiden cancel the attack and search a search token instead does it count as a search action? Gold Rush and Lure of Fortune both activates after or when the Treasure Hunter performs a search action, so can his hero ability activate those skills?
 
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Paul
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I do not think it is a search action. He performs an attack (which may be an attack action or an attack skill action,) cancels it, and searches a token. Just like Greedy is not a search action, this would not be a search action. They're essentially the same ability, just with different triggering conditions (one is cancel an attack after rolling, the other is spend an action, pay a fatigue, and exhaust a card.)
 
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