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Subject: The Complete & Accurate Rules For The Game Of IGNIS rss

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ARTHUR REILLY
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The Complete & Accurate Rules For IGNIS


IGNIS is a 2 player Abstract Strategy game which is played on a 6x6 Grid of Squares. The games comes with instructions and 37 double sided tiles. The symbols on the tiles are as follows:

8 - Tiles with the Fire Symbol (orange) on one side and the Earth Symbol on the other

8 - Tiles with the Water Symbol (blue) on one side and the Earth Symbol on the other

12 - Tiles with the Air Symbol (white) on one side and the Earth Symbol on the other

9 - Tiles with the Earth Symbol (green) on one side and the Earth Symbol on the other

In summary, all tiles have the Earth Symbol on at least one side.

Each person chooses 8 tiles of either Fire or Water and places them on the board according to the illustration in the instructions. Six more starting set-ups can be found under images on Board Game Geek. The 12 Air Tiles and 9 Earth Tiles become part of the supply which both players use when picking a piece to make a move.

Object of the game

The object of the game is to push or eliminate all of your opponents 8 pieces (Fire or Water) from the board, while still having at least one of your own pieces still on the board.

With the exception of the Earth Tiles and Air Tiles (*which I'll explain later) tiles can be removed in one of two ways.

1 - Taking a tile from the supply and sliding it into the board from one of the four outer edges. Note this only works when the entire row or column is filled with tiles, thus causing the tile at the opposite end of the row or column to fall off the board. If the row or column isn't completely filled, you're essentially just adding a tile to the board.

2 - If an entire row/column contain all of the same symbol and is at the edge of the board, all those pieces are automatically removed from the board and returned to supply. Note that all tiles, whether pushed off the board or eliminated when a row or column is removed, are always returned to the supply. (**will explain which side should face up when pushed or eliminated pieces are returned to the supply later).

*Earth Tiles can never be pushed off the board but may only be removed when they fill an entire row or column that's at the edge of the board.

*Air Tiles can only be pushed off the board by an Earth Tile. But they still may be eliminated when they fill an entire row or column which is at the edge of the current board.

**Returning pieces (Tiles) to supply

Piece(Tile) Eliminated Side To Show Upwards when returning it to supply

Fire Tile Earth Side up

Water Tile Earth Side up

Air Tile Air Side up

Earth Tile Air Side up (or Earth Side up if there isn't an air symbol on the opposite side).

Additional Game Rules

Please note that as rows or columns with the same symbol on them are removed from the board, that row or column is no longer used in the game. All that really means is that the board keeps getting smaller as entire rows or columns are removed. Also note that it may sometimes happen that when a row or column is removed, another row or column may become exposed that also has the same symbol on it, in which case this other row or column is also removed. This can be seen as a chain reaction until at the beginning of your play, every row or column will have more than one type of symbol on it in order for it to remain on the board.

Choosing pieces from the supply

At the beginning of the game you always have the choice of Earth and Air tiles to pick from. However you may end up in a situation where you only have Earth or just Air tiles to choose from. In the case of just having Earth Tiles remaining, you must choose an Earth tile. In the case of just having only Air Tiles remaining, you have one of two choices.

1 - Play an Air Tile

2 - Turn over an Air Tile to it's Earth Side and use it as an Earth Tile immediately.

So it's possible to run out of Air Tiles but you always have the option of using an Earth Tile should you so choose.

Additional Comments

With the exception of the Earth Tile, you may push off any symbol tile that you wish, even if it belongs to you. You must use an Earth Tile to push off an Air Tile. Remember that the board becomes smaller as each row or column is removed and those row or columns are no longer used when placing pieces. It's as if they never existed and the playing area keeps getting smaller.

Note: The instructions that come with the box aren't complete. The rules above describe the way the actual designer of the game plays and the way the instructions should of been written. So print out a copy of these rules and keep it with your game. If you don't own this game yet, stop reading now and go out and buy this fantastic game. It's the Best Abstract Strategy Game to come along in years. Personally, I have had tons of fun playing this game and want to keep on playing it. Enjoy.

Additional information as of 3/23/15
According to the designer, if you prefer to eliminate the possibility of draws, the active player decides the order in which the edge tiles are removed. The player with their symbol left on the board, wins the game.

Arthur Reilly
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When you write, "Water Tiles can only be pushed off the board by an Earth Tile." - you mean "Air Tiles" (not Water Tiles).

Regarding the fate of Earth/Air tiles removed from the board (for either reason): I think that the designer prefers to play as you indicate (the tiles go into the supply Air side up) but acknowledged it as an "advanced" rule - allowing that the printed rules say that they should go into the supply Earth side up. See here.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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gillum wrote:
When you write, "Water Tiles can only be pushed off the board by an Earth Tile." - you mean "Air Tiles" (not Water Tiles).

Regarding the fate of Earth/Air tiles removed from the board (for either reason): I think that the designer prefers to play as you indicate (the tiles go into the supply Air side up) but acknowledged it as an "advanced" rule - allowing that the printed rules say that they should go into the supply Earth side up. See here.


Thanks for pointing out the mistake where I said water instead of air. I have fixed that.

I've tried both changing all tiles to earth or checking for air on earth tiles before returning them to supply and the last way seems to me to be the most fun and interesting.

If it's the way the designer plays then it's good enough for me whether you call them advanced rules or not.

Appreciated all your comments. Thanks

Arthur Reilly
 
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Hello, Thanks Arthur for this subject.

The only missing in the rules in the box is : If theyre is only air tiles in the supply you can turn an air tile onto his Earth side. In this way you can always play an earth tile.

The other rules, like the ejected air rules (stay on air) or turning back the ejected earth tiles to air, are my way to play Ignis. Huch decide not to take this rules on the booklet to make a very accessible game.

So I'm agree with gillum, those rules are advanced rules. And I'm agree with Arthur, it's better to play with this rules when you have several partys played.

Dominique Breton
Ignis designer
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The rule left out of the instructions is pretty major. The great majority of buyers will never read a thread like this one and will be left with a game that can end in stalemates due to no legal moves. That omission has already led to some negative comments and ratings here. That's unfortunate.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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chicagopsych wrote:
The rule left out of the instructions is pretty major. The great majority of buyers will never read a thread like this one and will be left with a game that can end in stalemates due to no legal moves. That omission has already led to some negative comments and ratings here. That's unfortunate.


The designer originally wanted what's called "The Advanced Rules" printed as the original rules in the instruction booklet, but the publisher wanted to keep the rules as simple as possible. I have the English version of the game which does mention always being able to play an earth tile even though only air tiles are left. This information, from what the designer says, may be missing from other editions of the game. The intention of my posting was to give players all the information they needed to play the game the way the designer does. To provided the instructions in the way that he had wanted them printed. Anyone picking up such an abstract strategy game, I'd like to think would be on the Board Game Geek as well. But in any case, this is one fantastic game to have on your game shelf. I've tried, without success, to get Tom Vasel to do a video review of this wonderful game. Perhaps hearing from other players as well, just might make him change his mind. No matter what, just enjoy this really good abtract strategy game for a long time to come, it's that good.

Regards,

Arthur
 
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Well that's good to know that at least the English version has the correct rules. I would hate for a good game to not be successful because of a single rule. I recall the developer of Oshi saying he had come up with a rule to solve the stalemate issue with that game, but it was too late; the game had failed catch on enough to remain in print and the stalemate issue likely was a significant contributor. Anyway thanks for bringing this game to my attention. I had saw it at Barnes and Noble and thought nothing of it before your posts.
 
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I think that there are two rules in question here.

A. If there are only Air pieces to play, you may turn one over and play it as Earth.

B. When an Air piece is removed from the board, it becomes available as Air (not Earth).

I don't think that either of these rules in in the printed rules that came with my copy from HUCH! (which are in German, English, French, and Dutch).

B is an "advanced" rule that the designer recommends.

A is a basic rule that is required to avoid stalemates in certain cases.

I know that some people have complained about the fact that A does not appear in the printed rules.

I am not sure how much that really affects play. While there are advantages to playing Earth in many cases, I don't think that I have played many games in which (1) the Earth tiles ran out; and (b) playing an Air tile was not possible. (There may have been cases in which playing Earth may have been preferable to playing Air.) Maybe my family and I are not optimal players.

I think that rule B becomes more important if you play with rule A. If you don't play with rule A, ejected Air times come back as Earth, increasing the likelihood that there will always be Earth to play.
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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gillum wrote:
I think that there are two rules in question here.

A. If there are only Air pieces to play, you may turn one over and play it as Earth.

B. When an Air piece is removed from the board, it becomes available as Air (not Earth).

I don't think that either of these rules in in the printed rules that came with my copy from HUCH! (which are in German, English, French, and Dutch).

B is an "advanced" rule that the designer recommends.

A is a basic rule that is required to avoid stalemates in certain cases.

I know that some people have complained about the fact that A does not appear in the printed rules.

I am not sure how much that really affects play. While there are advantages to playing Earth in many cases, I don't think that I have played many games in which (1) the Earth tiles ran out; and (b) playing an Air tile was not possible. (There may have been cases in which playing Earth may have been preferable to playing Air.) Maybe my family and I are not optimal players.

I think that rule B becomes more important if you play with rule A. If you don't play with rule A, ejected Air times come back as Earth, increasing the likelihood that there will always be Earth to play.


Rule A as you have called it does appear in my edition of the game.
Rule B was never published in any version of the game. As I've pointed out at least 2 times, Rube B is indeed the Advanced rules. I also pointed out that the reason for including them in my instruction post was so that people could play the game the way the designer not only plays himself, but had wanted this rule to be included in the instructions, but weren't because the publisher wanted to keep things as simple as possible. I hope this clears up any questions you might still have. It seems to me with both rules included while playing, makes it the most interesting and fun.

Regards,

Arthur
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
gillum wrote:
A. If there are only Air pieces to play, you may turn one over and play it as Earth.

I don't think that [this rule] is in the printed rules that came with my copy from HUCH! (which are in German, English, French, and Dutch).


Rule A as you have called it does appear in my edition of the game.

Thanks so much for emphasizing that!

I have the 2013 edition of the game, and the PDF of the rules that I have were also from 2013 - and they lacked this rule.

I just checked and found that the old link to those rules is "dead" and that the publisher has posted new rules here: http://www.hutter-trade.com/sites/default/files/Anleitungen/...

Those rules do include "rule A" that was missing from my set.

I submitted a correction the BGG weblink for the rules, so it's now available that way as well.

Thanks again!
 
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Guillermo Alanis
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applying the edge rule after the last oppo ent pice has been eliminated
I've had cases where at the end of the game there are 2 fire elements right next to each other and all the edges are earth. would this edges be removed removing the fire tiles and resolving in a draw? or because the last water was off the board the edges don't apply anymore?
 
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jimogitaa wrote:
I've had cases where at the end of the game there are 2 fire elements right next to each other and all the edges are earth. would this edges be removed removing the fire tiles and resolving in a draw? or because the last water was off the board the edges don't apply anymore?

The rules give an example in which Water wins because two columns of Fire were removed, eliminating the last 4 Fire pieces.

If you look at the final configuration, you will see a row of Water that was not removed.

I infer from this that the game ends with a winner declared as soon as one color is off the board.

That said, one can come up with scenarios in which the last Water and Fire tiles both make up an entire row or column, and all would be removed simultaneously - resulting in a draw. (The example in the rules is different because there is no Water-only row until after the last Fire is removed.)
 
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
Earth Tile --> Air Side up (or Earth Side up if there isn't an air symbol on the opposite side).

Hi,

Thus the fate of an ejected Earth tile depends on its underside. Are the players allowed to check that underside before playing, be it for a tile present on the board or for a tile in stock to be entered? If not, are the Earth tiles shuffled each time a Fire or Water tile is ejected?

To sum it up, is there any element of randomness in this game?
 
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Well, after some thinking I conclude, whatever the answer to my question will be, that one never has to check the underside of a tile in stock before playing, because

1. if there are Air and Earth tiles in stock, then no Earth tile has an Air underside (such a tile would be Air-side up);
2. if there is no Earth tile in stock and the next player want to use one, they will flip an Air tile and hence know that that tile has now an Air underside.

Thus, no randomness. But still, is it legal to look at the underside of the pieces on the board before playing, or must the players remember which Earth tiles have an Air underside?
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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I don't know what the designer would say, but when I play, no one looks at the other sides of the tiles on the board.

Not to change the subject but I just purchased and played a really great new abstract strategy game called: Carnac

It has really nice components and many interesting plays come up over the course of every game you play. If you like abstracts, go check it out.

Regards,

Arthur Reilly
 
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yes, that was my first thought. but then I realized you need two or more of the same element so they can be removed. in that case, will the game resolve right after the last opponent piece is removed, or the removing of the edges if possible to be removed has to be resolved as well?
 
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
I don't know what the designer would say, but when I play, no one looks at the other sides of the tiles on the board.

I supposed so. But I thought a configuration of the game would be somewhat clearer if the backside of the Air tiles bore a slightly different Earth mark (for instance, of the same colour as its opposite side) than the other tiles.
 
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gillum wrote:
That said, one can come up with scenarios in which the last Water and Fire tiles both make up an entire row or column, and all would be removed simultaneously - resulting in a draw. (The example in the rules is different because there is no Water-only row until after the last Fire is removed.)

An additional rule could state that in such a case, the mover wins (or loses). That would be a simple way to avoid draws, such as there is for Lines of Action (in the second edition of A Gamut of Games, the mover indeed wins in case of simultaneous connexion).
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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I not sure I'm totally following the line of questioning but in any case I will add the following. If all the Fire tiles are removed from the board, the water player automatically wins. If all the water tiles are removed first, then the fire player automatically wins. That seems to me to be the spirit of the game.

Hope that helps.

Arthur Reilly
 
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
If all the Fire tiles are removed from the board, the water player automatically wins. If all the water tiles are removed first, then the fire player automatically wins.

That gives an advantage to the water player. Is that because the fire player has the advantage of playing first?
 
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Why are you assuming that the player who plays first has an advantage. If you indeed think that, explain to me how you think that's true.

Thanks,

Arthur Reilly
 
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
Why are you assuming that the player who plays first has an advantage. If you indeed think that, explain to me how you think that's true.

Thanks,

Arthur Reilly

You did give the water player an advantage with your rule 'If all the Fire tiles are removed from the board, the water player automatically wins'. I thus assumed that (or, rather, asked you if, but got no answer so far) you introduced such a rule to compensate a first-player advantage you might know of already.

Apart from these considerations, if there is a first-player advantage, it is because the first player can, before the opponent, modify the placement of the pieces. Thus, if there is at least one way to improve the placement for one of the players, moving first is probably better than moving second; if, on the contrary, all modifications worsen the position after one move, moving second seems better.
That said, I did not think or play enough to check it.

Thanks.
 
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To tell you the truth, I haven't played Ignis is quite sometime. I just read over the rules again to remind me of things I may have forgotten.

I did forget that the game can indeed turn out to be a draw if both players tiles are removed at the end of the game.

Personally I don't think one can say that either starting player has an advantage because they are the first to change the arrangement of tiles on the board. For that to be true, you'd have to say that every game that's played automatically makes the first player start with an advantage. You and I both know that's not true. In general, the skill of your opponent can affect whether or not one has an advantage. But between equal players, with Ignis anyway, I don't think there's a first player advantage. Maybe in your games you feel that the first player does have an advantage but that may more have to do with whom you are playing with and their skill level. Unless time proves me wrong, I think this is a pretty balanced game, regardless of who goes first.
But keep in mind that's just my opinion and I'm also basing it on the games I've played myself. Stop trying to make this game more complicated than it already is and just enjoy it, I know that I do.

Have fun with it.

Arthur Reilly

P.S. As far as looking at the underside of tiles on the board, I don't think should be allowed, unless you make it a house rule that you can.
 
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eobllor wrote:
You did give the water player an advantage with your rule 'If all the Fire tiles are removed from the board, the water player automatically wins'. I thus assumed that (or, rather, asked you if, but got no answer so far) you introduced such a rule to compensate a first-player advantage you might know of already.

Apart from these considerations, if there is a first-player advantage, it is because the first player can, before the opponent, modify the placement of the pieces.

Arthur did not invent this game, he just created this thread to state the rules more clearly. There is thus no need to ask him (Arthur) why he added certain rules.

With regard to the rules in question, they are symmetric, and only one was quoted because it pertained to the question being asked.

Thus, the following are both rules of the game:
- The Water player wins when the last Fire tile is removed.
- The Fire player wins when the last Water tile is removed.

There is a draw only if the last tiles of each type are removed simultaneously.

This thread is about clarifications of the printed (designer's) rules for Ignis. I think that it is beneficial to keep the thread focused on that, so that it can remain a good resource in the future.

If someone wants to open up a discussion of whether the game has a first-player advantage, one could open a thread in the Ignis-General forums (or in a more general forum if one wants to include discussion of other games, like Chess, Checkers, Go, Hive, etc.).

If someone wants to open up a discussion of how to change Ignis (e.g., to mitigate a perceived first-player advantage, or to avoid draws), one could open a thread in the Ignis-Variants forums.
 
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MENAREUS2000 wrote:
I did forget that the game can indeed turn out to be a draw if both players tiles are removed at the end of the game.

OK, thus no asymmetry in the ending condition.

MENAREUS2000 wrote:
P.S. As far as looking at the underside of tiles on the board, I don't think should be allowed, unless you make it a house rule that you can.

Any particular reason why you think so?

Thanks.
 
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