Bimmy Jim
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Are the ones who support it 45+?

I honestly have never come across a gaming forum where people supported censorship so much, and yet there are so many here that do.

I cannot fathom the authoritarian mindset that you people have.
 
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Ron
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Can you provide examples?

Not trying to be snippy, I just don't know to what you are referring.
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Yeah, an example would be nice. I don´t support censorship, but censorship is rather narrowly defined in my book. And lots of things that make people shout "Censorship!" nowadays are just people deciding for themselves what to do with their own property. Which I support as well.

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oldsin wrote:
Yeah, an example would be nice. I don´t support censorship, but censorship is rather narrowly defined in my book. And lots of things that make people shout "Censorship!" nowadays are just people deciding for themselves what to do with their own property. Which I support as well.


More like certain people rather than one or two posts that sum everything up..

A couple examples can be found in the "rape jokes" thread and the "Landed on a Comet" thread.

Basically, censorship in the form of political correctness. (calendars or shirts depicting attractive women should be banned; rape jokes should be banned; articles like this should be taken off the internet - http://www.returnofkings.com/21313/5-reasons-to-date-a-girl-...)

 
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I don't want to ban such things per se but I want nothing to do with either.
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BimmyJim wrote:
oldsin wrote:
Yeah, an example would be nice. I don´t support censorship, but censorship is rather narrowly defined in my book. And lots of things that make people shout "Censorship!" nowadays are just people deciding for themselves what to do with their own property. Which I support as well.


More like certain people rather than one or two posts that sum everything up..

A couple examples can be found in the "rape jokes" thread and the "Landed on a Comet" thread.

Basically, censorship in the form of political correctness. (calendars or shirts depicting attractive women should be banned; rape jokes should be banned; articles like this should be taken off the internet - http://www.returnofkings.com/21313/5-reasons-to-date-a-girl-...)

Sorry, that is not giving us examples, that is saying they exist.

We need to know exaclty what you are talking about before we can decide if it is wrong.

Examples of comments that many would not like to see (woudl you want them said to you?)

"I know where you live, and will, come round and rape your daughter"
"I know who you are and will rape you"
"I have told all my mates to gang rape you next BBG con".

I am sure that any normal person would not want these said, or be the target of them.
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BimmyJim wrote:
Are the ones who support it 45+?

I honestly have never come across a gaming forum where people supported censorship so much, and yet there are so many here that do.

I cannot fathom the authoritarian mindset that you people have.


I would love to Ban All religious lies.

That's the only example I can give you.

But in general, censorship is a bad thing.

Germany does it, with a lot of the WWII material for instance.
 
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I think you're confusing people wishing that certain things were less common with people supporting censorship. They aren't the same.
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As someone who is generally on DrWhoWho's side of issues, I'd just like to explicitly disavow his comments. However, I think the owner of a forum should be able to exercise absolute control over that forum so long as other avenues of expression remain open. As already suggested, that's a matter of property rights. Unless you think no organization should be allowed to require the use of uniforms, we're talking about a difference of degree, not principle.
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she2 wrote:
I think you're confusing people wishing that certain things were less common with people supporting censorship. They aren't the same.


I think you're right; although I'm sure there are some people who truly believe in banning certain things (examples I gave above), when I looked for actual examples not many people directly state "XYZ should be banned".

The emitting aura of censorship within these threads exists, though.

Also to silversteen: Direct threats are much different from general statements / wearing shirts / posting an article online.
 
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she2 wrote:
I think you're confusing people wishing that certain things were less common with people supporting censorship. They aren't the same.


Also people noting that the workplace isn't the place for certain things is also not supporting censorship.
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There is no such thing, to me, as censorship in the work place.

If your job wants you to shut up, you shut up or face the consequences, it's not a First Amendment Issue. The work place has total control of you and trumps your first amendment rights.
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Michael
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DrWhoWho wrote:


But in general, censorship is a bad thing.

Germany does it, with a lot of the WWII material for instance.


Oh, again, I´d be interested in an example for this. The law you are probably talking about limits the use of certain symbology in public, true enough, but there aren´t any outright bans and there is no censorship taking place in the classical sense.

A better example would be the fact that publicly denying the Holocaust can get you jail time in Germany.

Both examples are limitations of free speech and I can easily see why people would argue against that. But specifically for Germany I think the laws in question are justified. Maybe at some point in the future we can abolish them, but I don´t think we´re quite there yet.
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BimmyJim wrote:


The emitting aura of censorship within these threads exists, though.


I think that if the same people were asked whether the government should be involved in banning anything, there would be a resounding no in response. I also think that most of RSP wouldn't support banning any of it either (by someone other than the government). At most, there are people in RSP that hope that society is moving in a direction where these things may become less common by choice rather than force.
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Boaty McBoatface
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BimmyJim wrote:
she2 wrote:
I think you're confusing people wishing that certain things were less common with people supporting censorship. They aren't the same.


I think you're right; although I'm sure there are some people who truly believe in banning certain things (examples I gave above), when I looked for actual examples not many people directly state "XYZ should be banned".

The emitting aura of censorship within these threads exists, though.

Also to silversteen: Direct threats are much different from general statements / wearing shirts / posting an article online.
Sorry but you have given no direct examples, so we do not know if you are talking about direct threats or not.

I would add that freedom of speech is also the right to criticise what others do. So saying that someone of a pig for wearing a shirt is someone exercising their freedom of speech, why do you want censorship?

And by the way bumjam try to at least get my name right if you are going to reply.
 
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BimmyJim wrote:
Basically, censorship in the form of political correctness. (calendars or shirts depicting attractive women should be banned; rape jokes should be banned; articles like this should be taken off the internet - http://www.returnofkings.com/21313/5-reasons-to-date-a-girl-...)


OK, but who? For example, I'm one of those who thinks such calendars shouldn't be allowed at work, along with lots of other things that should be allowed elsewhere. That's not censorship, though. Similarly, I think that a lot of rape jokes are in bad taste and shouldn't be made -- that's not saying they should be banned.
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Bimmy Jim
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she2 wrote:
BimmyJim wrote:


The emitting aura of censorship within these threads exists, though.


I think that if the same people were asked whether the government should be involved in banning anything, there would be a resounding no in response. I also think that most of RSP wouldn't support banning any of it either (by someone other than the government). At most, there are people in RSP that hope that society is moving in a direction where these things may become less common by choice rather than force.


This is pretty much a perfect answer.

No more questions please! I admit I was wrong in assuming things too quickly.
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oldsin wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:


But in general, censorship is a bad thing.

Germany does it, with a lot of the WWII material for instance.


Oh, again, I´d be interested in an example for this. The law you are probably talking about limits the use of certain symbology in public, true enough, but there aren´t any outright bans and there is no censorship taking place in the classical sense.


Membership in a Nazi party, incitement of hatred against a segment of the population (Volksverhetzung) and Holocaust denial, are illegal in Germany.

Publishing, television, public correspondence (including lectures), and music are censored accordingly, with legal consequences that may include jail time.

Holocaust denial

Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. § 130(3) of the StGB (German penal code) reads:

He who, publicly or in assembly, approves, denies, or trivializes genocide committed under the regime of National Socialism in a way that is suitable to disturb the public peace, is subject to imprisonment up to 5 years or a monetary fine.


these are all very slippery slopes on the mountain of censorship....

Don't you dare question the Holocaust....jail...that's not a very nice way to go about it.
 
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p.s.....everyone where would love to censor one thing, lets not sit on our high horses claiming to be beacons of free speech
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DrWhoWho wrote:
p.s.....everyone where would love to censor one thing, lets not sit on our high horses claiming to be beacons of free speech
Rather depends on what you mean. I believe that anyone should be allowed to publish any opinion they like, and that is just it...opinion.

Freedom of speech (to my mind) is not freedom of expression, but of ideas.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DrWhoWho wrote:
oldsin wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:


But in general, censorship is a bad thing.

Germany does it, with a lot of the WWII material for instance.


Oh, again, I´d be interested in an example for this. The law you are probably talking about limits the use of certain symbology in public, true enough, but there aren´t any outright bans and there is no censorship taking place in the classical sense.


Membership in a Nazi party, incitement of hatred against a segment of the population (Volksverhetzung) and Holocaust denial, are illegal in Germany.

Publishing, television, public correspondence (including lectures), and music are censored accordingly, with legal consequences that may include jail time.

Holocaust denial

Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. § 130(3) of the StGB (German penal code) reads:

He who, publicly or in assembly, approves, denies, or trivializes genocide committed under the regime of National Socialism in a way that is suitable to disturb the public peace, is subject to imprisonment up to 5 years or a monetary fine.


these are all very slippery slopes on the mountain of censorship....

Don't you dare question the Holocaust....jail...that's not a very nice way to go about it.
As has been said, Germany has certain unique reasons for doing this, yes it is censorship, but one that is a choice made to help atone for the past.

Germany does not want to still be regarded as the Nazi state.
 
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Michael
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DrWhoWho wrote:
oldsin wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:


But in general, censorship is a bad thing.

Germany does it, with a lot of the WWII material for instance.


Oh, again, I´d be interested in an example for this. The law you are probably talking about limits the use of certain symbology in public, true enough, but there aren´t any outright bans and there is no censorship taking place in the classical sense.


Holocaust denial

Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. § 130(3) of the StGB (German penal code) reads:

He who, publicly or in assembly, approves, denies, or trivializes genocide committed under the regime of National Socialism in a way that is suitable to disturb the public peace, is subject to imprisonment up to 5 years or a monetary fine.


these are all very slippery slopes on the mountain of censorship....

Don't you dare question the Holocaust....jail...that's not a very nice way to go about it.


As I said, I agree that this is a better example and clearly a violation of free speech. I am also ok with it remaining law in Germany, and I´ll stand by that. I wouldn´t agree with introducing such a law anywhere else (edit: with one rather obvious exception).

There´s just a difference between a bunch of wacky Nazis parading around in full SS regalia somewhere in the US where the rest of the world can take it for granted that noone takes them seriously anyways and such a bunch parading through the Brandenburger Tor in Berlin, protected by uniformed German police.

So yeah. This might qualify for censorship/violation of free speech. And I am fine with it in this very specific case.

Also, there is no censorship taking place. You can publish your stuff without running them through a censor first.
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"Freedom of speech" does not mean freedom from criticism. If you say something that disturbs, or upsets, or angers me, I will tell you so, as will many other people who feel the way I do. They might just tell you strongly enough that you reconsider saying it again.

You seem to want to be able to say anything you want with total impunity.
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