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Subject: Feedback to help me build the expansion rss

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Ian Richard
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For those that don't know, I'm Ian Richard. I designed Cards of Cthulhu and I am officially starting development on an expansion. I wanted to have a single thread where I can get an idea of YOUR desires for the project.

What is that you'd like to see in an update? Simply more items and hero and would you like something more?

Feel free to leave any thoughts here or PM if you'd prefer.

On a related note, I've been given the greenlight to get some of you guys involved in the process. I'll have more details in another thread in case you are interested.

Oh and spread the word! The more feedback I get, the better game you'll get.
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Jack Francisco
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Hey Ian. That's great! This game definitely falls into an Elder Signs type niche (a game I beta-tested Unseen Forces for). I've always been of the belief that when a game does things right - Troyes, Eldritch Horror, etc. - that a "more of the same" approach is always good. I'm also a big fan of events that change a game from round to round. Looking forward to more of this!
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Kevin Eastwood
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Hi Ian,

Overall, I like the quickness of the gameplay and the quality of the game is quite good. I would stay away from expanding the length of the game as I think it's perfect right now.

One of the amazing things about the Mythos is that there's so much to choose from in terms of what you can add as additions. Looking at other Cthulhu games, they seem to add locations and events; but I'm thinking something completely different for CoC - perhaps you can spin the game from Cthulhu's perspective - instead of fighting against Cthulhu, what if the expansion allowed you to play as some of the powerful creatures from the Mythos (or their cultist minions) and have to stave off the investigators. This way you can play the game from both perspectives.


Best of luck on the expansion.



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Martin Gallo
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Good news on the expansion.

I would recommend more heroes (and even sidekick options) and more villains without necessarily adding to the game length. This gives the players more options about what to face. Additional rules to optionally increase game length for those that want it would come in handy.

I am not sure how it might work, but possibly "off-map" gates or locations that the players have to deal with. I think this would add to either difficulty or game length.
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Dan Verssen
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What about a "battle board" to resolve Horror fights with some simple combat rules and cards for combat options?
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Martin Gallo
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That might be amusing, but it sounds like it would become a different game. (That is not a bad thing as a fun tactical "fighting Cthulhu" game is always welcome.)
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Rich Dodgin
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I like the combat exactly how it is - that would be a change too much imho.
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James Boutilier
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+ 10 !! For enriching Combat. Even if it's via on-board attack features... or battle text on the Sleeping Ones cards. Maybe a little accumulative power amongst the minions.

I'm all for more interaction (with the mechanics), more battle value before more "stuff." A lot of times more stuff gets "tired" but more gameplay elements makes a game deeper.

I guess it comes down to... I'd buy more mechanics, whereas I probably would not buy more stuff (takes a lo for me to buy an expansion - it must add something engaging).
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Ian Richard
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I've heard alot of feedback that people like the simplicity and I have a few theories on improving replay and player options without losing that core.

I don't want to go into details until I'm sure it'll work as planned, but the theory is to have "Investigation" Cards. These will usually spawn off board and you can assign resources towards solving them.
These will offer unique one time positive effects or might just be more troubles that'll eat your face if you ignore them.

There are a few other changes that are a little more extreme but are necessary. They'll increase setup time a bit, but the flexibility should more than make up for it.

Again, none of these idea's are proven yet. But I'm hoping to make the game more flexible while keeping the core very similar.
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James Boutilier
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Ian - great blend of interests.

...I like the "eat your face".

ps-- I LOVE your Unboxing Youtube Vid. Didn't realize that was you -- I've watched your gaming vids before. Very cool and congrats !
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michal
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Cards of Cthulhu has simple rules and gameplay is quick. This still should be the core of this game.

Cards of Cthulhu is more a dice game than card game. It is almost impossible for a player to manipulate cards. Player can manipulate dice and can spend experience. (Although I haven't player multiplayer yet) there is also almost no interaction in multiplayer game. These are the general ideas of what the game may be expanded:

1. ability to manipulate cards
2. new dice
3. new ways to use dice
4. new ways to spend experience
5. new spells
6. more interaction for multiplayer
7. new ways to die
8. more cursed items
9. removing card option as an official printed rule (I played it a lot and it is great rule to improve difficulty)
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Ian Richard
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c08mk wrote:
There is also almost no interaction in multiplayer game.


I am indeed looking to improve the multiplayer. I'm not entirely sure how I'll go about this, but it's on the agenda and getting people involved and can help me improve it.

c08mk wrote:
Removing card option as an official printed rule (I played it a lot and it is great rule to improve difficulty)


Yep, this is actually the bigger, but necessary change I mentioned. By adding new cards the length of the game would quickly grow out of control.

Instead, the expansion will need to feature some deck construction prior to each game. At the very minimum, you'll be combining X items, X followers, and the cults to form the main deck prior to each game.

This will ensure the length doesn't increase but will also give you more variety between any 2 games.
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Dan Verssen
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What about additional mini-boards that represent mini-missions or side adventures?

Not exactly sue how they would work. If they required new cards, those cards would be kept in a separate deck to avoid altering the core game balance/length.
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Ian Richard
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DanVerssen wrote:
What about additional mini-boards that represent mini-missions or side adventures?


This is pretty much the "If everything works" plan. (This is experimental and I am not promising anything!)

Martin Vetter
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had given me an interesting idea about "Story Cards" that got me thinking.

Prior to each game you'll pick a "Scenario" that has certain deck setup* and minor rule variations.

For example, my test Scenario takes you to a small town to investigate.
- There is a high concentration of followers, but few very items.
- Cowards: People don't want to get involved, so you're limited to one follower at a time.
- Talkative: Everyone has stories and every follower you don't hire awards 2 XP instead of 1.

While the actual scenario system is slightly more complicated it still has a 3-5 minute setup time.

But it opens up far more flexibility to the game and will allow players to pick scenario's depending on Game Length, Difficulty, or other factors.

As I said at the beginning though, there are no promises. This will definitely be one of the first things I'll put on the table for people to test.

Depending on the response it may change or vanish entirely.

* By deck building it's usually just X Cults, Y followers, Z items. While certain Scenario's might require specific cards... most will be randomly filled.
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michal
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Scenarios are interesting ideas. For players who would like to play more than one game scenarios could be linked into campaign.

Mini boards are interesting idea. This somehow fit into Ian's idea with investigation cards. It could be another way to loose a game: if mini board or investigation requirement is not finished, player loose a game.
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James Boutilier
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Story Cards- love this. Works great in a few games that use it. And yeah, combining to make a campaign is sweet.

Dan's Mini-boards is a great idea too. And for people worried it adds too much complication, it can be an in-game user choice. That is, an Event, Investigation or minion card can "spawn" this mini quest/adventure/combat as a "Secondary" effect for those players using it (it can be completely ignored, but must be maintained, either you play them all, or you play none.)

It would be nice to have baddie cards fight back using simple card text. More peril.

(ps- no I've not played, but AM now a new owner of the game ! just waiting it's arrival!)
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Jay Santos
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This is more a component suggestion. But the only thing keeping this game from uber-portable are the boards. I would love to see some cards that can be used to replace placeholders for areas of each board.


As far as gameplay goes...i'd like to see bigger differences in the minion cards between the Elders. Right now beyond the number values and colors on the minion cards, i find im not paying much attention to the minion names or graphics. It'd be great if there was something special granted to the minions of the Elder gods depending on the Elder. Likewise perhaps there are items or followers that work better against specific Elders.


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LargeGoblin
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I think it would be neat if the four great old ones didn't have the same cultists, but this would necessitate having the cultists have some sort of abilities besides combat strength. I was thinking of these more as replacing minions in the base deck rather than adding them, but either way could work, depending on how long you want your game to be.

A few ideas (not necessarily great):
-Some minions that did one point of sanity damage when you defeated them, so you had to discard a follower or one xp to defeat them.
-Some low-strength minion that required at least two dice to defeat.
-Minions that modify the protection order (e.g. minion that protects other minions or protects awakened horror).
-Minions that give some reward for being defeated (e.g. grant one extra xp, allow you to discard a gate or low-strength minion, get added to your inventory and allow you to cancel a curse or add a spirit die one time).
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Gary Bradley
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I suppose the obvious expansion would be a 5th board and associated necessary cards. Have you tried that to see if the game scales? You'd draw 5 cards per turn + number of open gates, but everything else remains the same.
 
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Ian Richard
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I actually tested the fifth board a while back and it scaled horribly.

It's a kindof funny system because more boards you have... the more spread out the danger will be. It actually gets easier with more enemy boards.

That said, I've built a "Scenario" system with minor deck-building that will allow us to add new cults and cards in general. It has generally good response from testers and will likely be found in the expansion.


As for unique minions, I'm toying with a system that will hopefully help on that front, but not as complex as you guys mention. While little will change on the minions themselves, certain cults will influence specific minions.

Whether it's making specific minion types more powerful or calling them all to a single board regardless of their color... the cults themselves will create the uniqueness.

This isn't set in stone yet though. So far people seem to like it, but things are subject to change.
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