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King of New York» Forums » Variants

Subject: 2 Player Variant rss

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David Anderson
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I really like the game, but it suffers from the same problem as it's sibling. It's too easy to camp out in Manhattan (in this case). One player often doesn't have the firepower to force their opponent out. Luckily the fix is simple. It's the same one we employ in King of Tokyo.

1) A player does not receive a victory point for entering Manhattan.

2) A player in Manhattan receives one victory point less in each section of Manhattan. So, instead of gaining one victory point and one energy in the first section of Manhattan, the player would only receive one energy. In the next section the player would receive one victory point and one energy instead of two victory points and one energy... And so on.

We have had many a good battle in King of Tokyo using this method and it works just as well in King of New York.

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Michael Nerman
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I think you mean "Manhattan"...

That does seem like an easy fix. Did you ever mention this in the forums for KoT?!
 
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David Anderson
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Thanks. Ill fix that and yes Ive mentioned it several times, but it hasn't really caught on (I think).

Please give it a try and tell me what you think.
 
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Nate Meyer
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I played 2p last night and found the same thing. We played 2 games and the 1st player won both easily because when only one other monster is beating on the player in Manhattan, it's too easy to stay and barrel toward victory destroying buildings and collecting free VPs while taking your licks. I was thinking that a fix could be that in 2p, to simulate multiple players, any claws the monster outside of Manhattan rolls are doubled. Have you ever tried this? I'll give your variant a try next time I play 2p because I was kinda disappointed with the game @ 2p:it isn't nearly as fun 2p as it is 4 or 5p.
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David Anderson
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Doubling the claws would be too powerful IMO. Just the other night I rolled a Yahtzee of 5 claws. That would have taken out my opponent with that variant.
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James
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I always found the runaway leader aspect of King of Tokyo was manageable with two players by changing strategy focus depending on whether you were in Tokyo or not. New York seems extremely imbalanced with two, so I think I'm going to try your variant out. I might also make a tweak to the "ouch" rules to make it more likely for army units to hit the monster in Manhattan.
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Dan Zielinski
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Used this last night... Loved it! Worked perfectly to balance out the lack of damage you can dish out on the person in Manhattan. Thank you!
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Scott Godine
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eviljelloman wrote:
I always found the runaway leader aspect of King of Tokyo was manageable with two players by changing strategy focus depending on whether you were in Tokyo or not. New York seems extremely imbalanced with two, so I think I'm going to try your variant out. I might also make a tweak to the "ouch" rules to make it more likely for army units to hit the monster in Manhattan.


I haven't tried OP yet, but I've been thinking about this -- perhaps 2 ouch dice should trigger a global attack, but with a maximum of 1 damage outside of your borough. So not nearly as powerful as the 3-ouch military counterattack, but there's a reason to take 2x ouch, unlike in the unmodified game, when I would imagine it's extremely unlikely that you'll both be in the same borough.
 
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Michael Nerman
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I tried your two player game at a game night I had on Boxing Day when one of the guests arrived early. It works pretty well!
 
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William the Fool
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We came across the same issue, tried your variant and now consider the problem solved! Thanks!
 
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Ed Ong
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I tried this 2 player variant , it's simple and it does work in balancing things quite a bit, an

Having tried it a few times, me and my girlfriend finds it to be a little bit 'lonely' though with only 2 monster rampaging new york. So we came up with a variant that we call the 'Mothra Variant'

In this variant, we didn't change the Manhattan's bonus. Instead, we added a 3rd monster as 'Mothra'. At the beginning of each player turn, do a VP check:

A. If the VP is tied, then just play like normal game rules
B. If the player's VP is lower than the opponent, then enter 'Mothra's Phase'.

In Mothra's phase :

1. Roll 3 dice for Mothra (3 rerolls like normal).
2. Mothra has no Energy or Lifepoint, doesn't keep any Energy and Lifepoint, so disregard any Lightning and Heart Rolls
3. Resolve Claws, Building, Ouch and Stars like normal.
4. If Mothra attacks you while you're in Manhattan, you can flee Manhattan, Mothra then enters Manhattan
5. If Mothra is attacked while it's in Manhattan, it ALWAYS flee manhattan (the player with the lower VP decides where Mothra flee to, if the VP is tied, the player left outside of Manhattan decides where it flees to)
6. Mothra is unaffected by status such as curse, web, etc


Personally, while this variant is a bit more 'complex', i find having a 3rd monster does spices things up a bit (Screaming "Mothra Attacks!!' after rolling claws is really quite fun ). It also helps to remedy the '1st player camps in Manhattan' problem, as most of the time, the player outside of Manhattan will tend to gain control of Mothra due to the player in Manhattan collecting more VPs'.

I would love to hear from anyone who will try this 'Mothra's variant' and discuss about the balance issue.










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Peter Elsenheimer
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turtleback wrote:

Thanks. Ill fix that and yes Ive mentioned it several times, but it hasn't really caught on (I think).

Please give it a try and tell me what you think.


Would you give a link(s) to your ideas in the KoT forums, please? I couldn't find what you said.

I'd really like to try them out.
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David Anderson
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This is what I said Dec. 2012

turtleback wrote:

My wife and I just just started playing a variant where you do not gain a star for entering Tokyo and you only get one star per turn while in Tokyo (not two). It works great. It makes it more likely that you will have to leave Tokyo at least once or twice during the game. Also, card play played a bigger role using this variant. Probably because the game is a little longer this way. It made the game much more fun for two.

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Peter Elsenheimer
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Thanks. Based on your quote, I also found the forum. I hope to get to try it in the next few weeks.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/895071/best-way-play-2-play...
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Popov Victor
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i played about 8 games of NY with the rules modifications from the first post and it still feels imbalanced to me. the winner is always the person that enters manhatan first
 
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David Anderson
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bubu91 wrote:
i played about 8 games of NY with the rules modifications from the first post and it still feels imbalanced to me. the winner is always the person that enters manhatan first


I'd suggest the player not in Manhattan should focus more of their energy on ousting the other player. The variant gives you extra turns to do that. It's a game of king of the hill.
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Popov Victor
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turtleback wrote:
bubu91 wrote:
i played about 8 games of NY with the rules modifications from the first post and it still feels imbalanced to me. the winner is always the person that enters manhatan first


I'd suggest the player not in Manhattan should focus more of their energy on ousting the other player. The variant gives you extra turns to do that. It's a game of king of the hill.


indeed. but this way all you do is reroll to get the most claws. and the player in manhatan does the same ) a game of New York becomes like a game of Tokyo. there s no point in destroying buildings or using the ouch faces.
 
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Gilles Monchoux
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Hello,
I have not tried the proposed variant by the OP, but I think that the main problem here is the lack of damage taken by the monster in Manhattan. Obviously something needs to be unbalanced against him. Next game I'll try this : if the monster in Manhattan is attacked by the other monster, he takes an additional wound. Being in Manhattan would still be less dangerous than in 3+ player games, but it may be enough to force him to leave the top of hill before winning.
Have anyone try this ?
 
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Peter Elsenheimer
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nikkentobi wrote:
I tried this 2 player variant , it's simple and it does work in balancing things quite a bit, an

Having tried it a few times, me and my girlfriend finds it to be a little bit 'lonely' though with only 2 monster rampaging new york. So we came up with a variant that we call the 'Mothra Variant'

In this variant, we didn't change the Manhattan's bonus. Instead, we added a 3rd monster as 'Mothra'. At the beginning of each player turn, do a VP check:

A. If the VP is tied, then just play like normal game rules
B. If the player's VP is lower than the opponent, then enter 'Mothra's Phase'.

In Mothra's phase :

1. Roll 3 dice for Mothra (3 rerolls like normal).
2. Mothra has no Energy or Lifepoint, doesn't keep any Energy and Lifepoint, so disregard any Lightning and Heart Rolls
3. Resolve Claws, Building, Ouch and Stars like normal.
4. If Mothra attacks you while you're in Manhattan, you can flee Manhattan, Mothra then enters Manhattan
5. If Mothra is attacked while it's in Manhattan, it ALWAYS flee manhattan (the player with the lower VP decides where Mothra flee to, if the VP is tied, the player left outside of Manhattan decides where it flees to)
6. Mothra is unaffected by status such as curse, web, etc


Personally, while this variant is a bit more 'complex', i find having a 3rd monster does spices things up a bit (Screaming "Mothra Attacks!!' after rolling claws is really quite fun ). It also helps to remedy the '1st player camps in Manhattan' problem, as most of the time, the player outside of Manhattan will tend to gain control of Mothra due to the player in Manhattan collecting more VPs'.

I would love to hear from anyone who will try this 'Mothra's variant' and discuss about the balance issue.

Ed, perhaps mention your variant in it's own Geeklist in the KoNY forums so it will get better attention.
 
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Peter Elsenheimer
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We finally tried the Turtleback variant to KoNY. I love it's simplicity, and it helps the imbalance a bit. However, it doesn't make KoNY a good 2-player game as it does for KoT. But, it is still fun, and we will always use it when we play 2-player.
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