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Warhammer 40,000: Conquest» Forums » General

Subject: Help Me Understand... rss

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I'm not an inexperienced gamer. I love Netrunner, Lord of the Rings and a few other card games. But I'm having a bit of trouble with general motives in this game at some times (perhaps for the same reasons I do with DoomTown...)

The key to my struggle might be in the "First Planet". I've played three games so far, as we both seem to always attack the first planet. There's no reason not to... it's often a win-it or slowly spiral into losing. Often, beyond putting high command units with low costs on other planets, we don't see the point to other planets. There's little reason to really plan ahead when your Warlord can jump to a planet (which is going to be the first planet, in our case) alongside the other units in HQ (which still come exhausted)... What are we doing wrong?

If I read the rules correctly...
-You only have combat at planets where there is a Warlord.
-You only "win" a planet if it is the first planet.
...So we always send our Warlords to the first planet. I started to consider this much akin to always going all-in with an unknowingly losing hand in DoomTown, but after several games, we just don't get it. I'm trying to give enough info just in case we are missing a major rule.

Side-question: Units at a planet that is won return to HQ and then... always follow a Warlord?

Another side-question: the planet that puts a unit into play in your HQ when you win it puts into into play... for free? Without paying cost?

Thank you for any responses. Wish there were more videos of this game.
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Dustin
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Warlords have a gold hammer, which trumps regular hammers. This is huge to win resources at different planets, and to move units there for a future set up.

Units move with a warlord, and they arrive EXHAUSTED

Yes
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SeerMagic wrote:
Warlords have a gold hammer, which trumps regular hammers. This is huge to win resources at different planets, and to move units there for a future set up.

Units move with a warlord, and they arrive EXHAUSTED

I do understand this- though the idea of using the Warlord's commit to set-up future units hadn't fully occurred to me.

Perhaps part of this is neither of us realizing we will lose the combat for first planet?
 
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Donny Behne
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A couple of things to make sure are clear first:

1) You have combat at the first planet AND at planets with warlords. Not just at planets with warlords.

2) The only planet that ever leaves play each turn is the first planet.

3) If the battle happened at the first planet, any units remaining return to HQ in the condition they were in at the end of combat. If battle happened at any other planets, the normal units do not leave but the warlord does return to HQ. Units at HQ will always move with the warlord to the planet he goes to and they arrive exhausted, the warlord does not.

4) "Put into play" means you play it from your hand for free. If something tells you that "you may play a card" then you must pay the cost.


All that said, you do not have to win the first planet every time. I've often won with a slower, control style deck spending turns playing cards onto other planets to win the command struggle. Then when I'm overflowing with cards and resources, I lower the boom on the planets I need to win, when the initiative favors me. By that time, I've built up a healthy presence at these worlds while my opponent, if he's been frontloading on the first planet, is bringing his guys in exhausted and I pick them off piecemeal.

There are a great many reasons to ignore the first planet and send your warlord elsewhere.

Azgard12 wrote:

Perhaps part of this is neither of us realizing we will lose the combat for first planet?


The best thing you can do is realize that you want to win on your terms, not the terms of the game. The first planet is only relevant if it plays into your gameplan. Look at the flop and find the first "game winning planet", that being the third planet of a specific color. Now you need to determine if you can win by that point or need to delay based on your opening draw, your deck, and your opponent's deck. There's a lot to consider.
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mathew rynich
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Yup. what Donny said. They way you worded it it sounds like you might be playing it wrong. Combat happens always at the first planet regardless of warlord placement. then in addition combat happens at any other planet with a warlord present.

I think you'll find the game more interesting once you can predict losses (and not waste the cards and/or resources) rather than only see victories. Retreat happens often in my games and the command struggle wins the game long term usually.

If taking the first planet every turn was the only path to victory then the Orks would be the kings of the game. I've found they are harder to play than some other factions because their default play style is so predictable.

Also if you are playing against one of the 3 factions that can get Doom or the 3 Factions that can get Warp Storm then your snowballing on the first planet every turn could be a disaster later on when the opponent draws their catch up event.
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John Moore
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You also need to realize that winning a battle triggers its battle effect (if the winner chooses to). You can heal your warlord completely, damage all units in enemy HQ, and all kinds of things. Winning multiple times is a good thing.

Fighting on other planets also trims down the units that have been placed there for the command struggles, so that by the time that planet is the first planet those units aren't already deployed there as backup.
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T J
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I wonder if you're doing something incorrectly? It happens quite frequently in games that I've played that the first planet is relatively worthless in the grand scheme of things, and that its better to win resources and extra cards vs a planet that wont benefit you unless you somehow get down to the last planet or two.
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Nico
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Quote:
-You only have combat at planets where there is a Warlord.
-You only "win" a planet if it is the first planet.
...So we always send our Warlords to the first planet. I started to consider this much akin to always going all-in with an unknowingly losing hand in DoomTown, but after several games, we just don't get it. I'm trying to give enough info just in case we are missing a major rule.


Consider this: The first planet only has one icon, you don't have initiative and your opponent managed to get better units out than you, so why would you go to the first planet? Why would you even deploy units to it in the deploy phase, let him have it. First round, at least for us, is always about getting small units to as much as planets as possible to win many command struggles.

Quote:
Units at a planet that is won return to HQ

Yes but ONLY if the planet is removed(because beeing the first planet), otherwise only the Warlord return and all other units MUST stay at the planet.
This is very important, and imho the most logical reason why you see no point in deploying to another planet.
Like already said, units traveling with your warlord arrive exhausted, they don't contribute to the command struggle and need to wait a whole combat round before they can attack. But if you move all your units to another planet, lets say the second planet, your units will stay there and will be refreshed next round.

Quote:
and then... always follow a Warlord?


Yes, if you send your Warlord to a Planet in the Commandphase, all Units in HQ MUST follow him to the planet, and arrive exhausted.

As a side note, only the Warlord has the option to retreat "mid combat" all other units must fight, and only get a change to retreat after a combat round. So you must carefully calculate your losses beforehand.

Quote:
Another side-question: the planet that puts a unit into play in your HQ when you win it puts into into play... for free? Without paying cost?


Can't remember the correct wording on the card but it usually is like this
"Deploy a unit": Pay its cost to bring it into play. Emphasize on the Deploy
"Put into play": Just play the card, without paying its cost.
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We played three more games last night- the same problems somewhat persisted... the one time I decided to just try going for a different planet it was a big mistake. But, I do think there's something I like in this.

dowhilefor wrote:
The first planet only has one icon, you don't have initiative and your opponent managed to get better units out than you, so why would you go to the first planet?

Perhaps this is part of our problem: in the majority of our games, the first planet has been the one with all three icons that removes all damage from one unit (which, ironically, we've never been able to get the Battle effect off). Having all three icons right off the bat just seems too good to us...?

Thank you for all of your input and advice. While it seems I have the rules right, I am missing strategies and whatnot that you're helping me to see. I like this game, it just somewhat feels like a few hands of poker that you either go all-in on or retreat. I was hoping for a grand and glorious sprawling space battle- but instead there are these focused and small but interesting skirmishes.
 
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Patrick Brennan
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Just checking if you've read this - it outlines reasons why it's generally not a good idea for both players to try to snowball at the first planet, especially the player without initiative.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1226368/thoughts-gamepla...
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Trevor S.
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Are you doing Command Struggles at all the planets with units? You don't need warlords present to conduct these. Let someone take the first planet while you're out there gathering resources.
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Zeb
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I love playing against people who only go to the first planet, I just set up Stingwing + Ion Rifle on future planets.
 
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