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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Suggestions on how to play with a full kit! rss

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Mike Romeo
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Hi we'll be playing tomorrow a 6 players game, with 4 players who have already played the first expension but not the second one and 2 new players! We have a lot of time on our side fortunatly! So we're looking for recommendations on the best way to play for us if :

-We own everything (base + 2 expensions)

-We like fighting a lot

-We like politics as well! We're really looking to include the ambassadors and spies thing, and the cards which offer benefits in exchange of votes, etc. Our concerns with this is one : on our previous plays without the second expension, laws and votes were a couple of times useless, because the result would not really impact the game, so is there a way to make sure the politics mathers! and the second concern is: we're scare that at a certain point in the game (towards the end) the cards which make binding agreements start serving for king making instead of real negotiation (I'm not gonna win so take my card which grants you a point so you can beat the one who KICKED MY ASS or BETRAYED ME).

-We like having races that really feel different, so we'll most likely include race specific techs and flagships.

-We are experienced gamers, but two of us have not played before, so we don't mind complexity if it's WORTH it, but we will have to go through rules explanation before hand.

Now what do you suggests for :

1.Tactic cards : Which set to use? We don't mind mixing sets like Warfare 3 with Politic 1 etc...

2.Races to exclude? Races that should not be given to inexperienced players?

3.We will use the preset map, any advice on that?

4.What module to include? Should be worth the addition when compared to complexity it adds! What module to stay away from at all costs?

5.Special preselection of objtective cards, politic cards (laws and others), action cards?

6.Any other general tips/advices?


Thank you very much for the help, I know it's hard to help when you're so jealous of us for having a no time-limit full Twilight Imperium session tomorrow despite our wives and families :))))))) can't wait!
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Necessary Evil
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The FFG s player preset maps work well. I suggest those over any of the online asymmetrical maps that require bidding. (save them for later when everyone knows the game well)

I suggest dealing 3 races to each player then having them pick one. (shuffle the in picked 2 back in and deal the next guy)

the races from the 2nd expansion are all odd to play. I would not give them to a newbie.

I always suggest the Se strategy cards and especial the SE objectives. I don't like the the Shards political system, or for that matter mercs. I would add in the flagships, tanks, planets and technologies.

Also I suggest allowing in turn order people to pick 2 preliminary objectives and select one. (return the other tot he deck)

Same thing for secrets. (also always remove the merciless secret from the game. It is way too hard and totally ruins the game for the players next to the guy who gets it.)

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Mike Romeo
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Well I have not read the rules for Shards yet, I don't really care for mercs either, but what I certainly care for is an improved politic experience! If politics can become as crucial as warfare and economy, well that would really be AWESOME!!! So are the spies and ambassador still payable this way?

Do you suggest to trim the political cards and sort apart the useless one to ensure the votes will mather? What about the binding agreement cards?
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Phil Triest
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Forget FFG's pre-set map rules. Instead check this site and just build what they have done http://www.astralvault.net/games/SA/maps.html
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Mike Romeo
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Is it not too complex for beginners? Fracture for 6 players seems really awesome, what do you think?
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Roger Reisinger
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KingAnus3 wrote:
Is it not too complex for beginners? Fracture for 6 players seems really awesome, what do you think?


Id start with Maelstorm. Fractured is a great map but not for new players.

My suggestions:

-No attacking players on the 1st turn
-Bid for starting position
-Trim Political Deck to 50 cards, taking out most elect player/ elect planet/ cards that have option of no effect.
-Trim Action Cards to 110 getting rid of most shards cards and things like recheck and cards that need conditions that may not come up during the game.
-MU should not be immune to PDS or Bombardment

Tell us how the game goes, have fun!
 
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Roger Reisinger
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One more thing, about races... If this is a learning game or you want to make sure everyone has a good time and wants to play again, remove:

Yssaril Tribes
Nekro Virus
Ghosts of Cruess
Aborek
Xxcha

That leaves 12 solid races ( 2 per player to choose from ), and all of them are pretty straight forward to use. I actually ban Yssaril Tribes in all my games but use the rest.
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Don't obey the rules about Racial Tech which says you have to pay the printed resource cost + the cost for Tech as stated on the Tech Strategy Card.

This makes Race Tech hard to get, and thus rarely used. Which makes no sense as Racial Tech should be more of a defining characteristic of your Race, rather than a rarely encountered optional extra.

Instead, allow the Race Tech to be bought during the Status Phase (not the Tech phase). Cost is the printed cost, minus (-) your victory points, plus (+) the cost of any previous Racial tech.

This is taken from the Shattered Ascension player created rule-set. The point is to link your Races' progress to its progress and place in the galaxy.

Its a lot more fun! Good luck.
 
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Having taught this game a number of times to groups of 5 or more, I can say from my experience that Preliminary Objectives are not worth it as they lead to 'analysis paralysis'.

Just stick with the Public Objectives and Secret Objectives. You could deal two Secret Objectives out to each player and let them choose one to keep.

Artifacts on the board are also great and have proven to be a lot of fun for newbies.
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Edwin Priest
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KTrout wrote:
Having taught this game a number of times to groups of 5 or more, I can say from my experience that Preliminary Objectives are not worth it as they lead to 'analysis paralysis'.

Just stick with the Public Objectives and Secret Objectives. You could deal two Secret Objectives out to each player and let them choose one to keep.

Artifacts on the board are also great and have proven to be a lot of fun for newbies.


We like the preliminary objectives as they add more points in to the game. However, we house-ruled long ago that each player starts with both a preliminary and a secret objective. They can begin claiming their secret objective after turn three even if they haven't achieved their preliminary one.
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Mike Romeo
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Ok for now what we might probably do is

1.exclude those races :
-Yssaril Tribes
-Nekro Virus
-Ghosts of Cruess
-Aborek
-Xxcha
(even if I really want to try the ghosts of cruess).

2.We'll include the :

-race techs with the option to allow the Race Tech to be bought during the Status Phase (not the Tech phase). Cost is the printed cost, minus (-) your victory points, plus (+) the cost of any previous Racial tech.

-flagship

-motorized units (not immune to PDS or Bombardment)

-council members (spies bodyguards emisseries).

-2 preliminary and 2 secret objectives at the beginning, each player selects one of each. (Not sure if they will be allowed to complete secret without preliminary yet).

-Maybe Artifacts (not sure yet).

3.We will do a preselection of politcal and action cards

4.Use SE objectives

What I'm STILL NOT Sure about is:

1. Strategy cards, for now I consider using the SE cards with the exeption of Ambassor II (instead of 1), or maybe Politics II? What are your advices about the strategy cards to use (don't want to use the merceneries).

2. Politics - what are the advices for politics? Use politic II or ambassador II? I will trim the deck to keep only meaningful cards, but I don't know if there is enough meaningful cards at all loll. Give players a starting hand?

3. Map - I will use the Maelstrom map if NO BIDDING is required, else I will use the preset. I don't feel like new players or even myself will be able to correctly evaluate the value of the starting positions as well as goods and VP to bid. Thoughts on this?


4.Anything I might have forgot?


THANKS!!!
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You can safely use the SE strategy cards. My group likes Warfare I over Warfare II, but its not a big deal.

Politics is always a mixed bag, and usually underwhelming. This is due to the Political Cards themselves. There are a lot of tweaks out there. I have posted an 'Imperial Forum' variant which practically dispenses with the Political Cards altogether (except for the 'game changers' which involve VPs or executions, etc) and instead incorporates the natural political nature of alliances and round table discussion into the Strategy Card itself. It also retains Representatives and Promissory Notes from the SE expansion.

We always use pre-set maps that do not involve bidding.

If you want to include Distant Suns, you could consider placing tiles on only half the planets on the map (usually the best resource ones). Provides the fun variation DS brings, but cuts down on the time DS takes!

Have fun! I'm jealous that you get an open day to play.
 
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Roger Reisinger
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KingAnus3 wrote:
Ok for now what we might probably do is

1.exclude those races :
-Yssaril Tribes
-Nekro Virus
-Ghosts of Cruess
-Aborek
-Xxcha
(even if I really want to try the ghosts of cruess).

2.We'll include the :

-race techs with the option to allow the Race Tech to be bought during the Status Phase (not the Tech phase). Cost is the printed cost, minus (-) your victory points, plus (+) the cost of any previous Racial tech.

-flagship

-motorized units (not immune to PDS or Bombardment)

-council members (spies bodyguards emisseries).

-2 preliminary and 2 secret objectives at the beginning, each player selects one of each. (Not sure if they will be allowed to complete secret without preliminary yet).

-Maybe Artifacts (not sure yet).

3.We will do a preselection of politcal and action cards

4.Use SE objectives

What I'm STILL NOT Sure about is:

1. Strategy cards, for now I consider using the SE cards with the exeption of Ambassor II (instead of 1), or maybe Politics II? What are your advices about the strategy cards to use (don't want to use the merceneries).

2. Politics - what are the advices for politics? Use politic II or ambassador II? I will trim the deck to keep only meaningful cards, but I don't know if there is enough meaningful cards at all loll. Give players a starting hand?

3. Map - I will use the Maelstrom map if NO BIDDING is required, else I will use the preset. I don't feel like new players or even myself will be able to correctly evaluate the value of the starting positions as well as goods and VP to bid. Thoughts on this?


4.Anything I might have forgot?


THANKS!!!


If you want to ramp up your Politics, check out the Twilight Council variant. You can see it here http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1233694/pbf-imperium-aeternu... ,

This is my first game using the Twilight Council and I really like it. I will be using it in all my home games.
 
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Starkiller
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Ahh, politics. I'm not one to mess with the base rules much, but I do believe some tweaking is necessary for optimal Political involvement. I've said this many other times, like here, but here it is again:

Political SC (Base game) really hurts the political game because the PC up for vote is completely random, and could just as well be useless--creating an unimportant vote. I would never use Political SC.

Assembly SC (Shattered Empire expansion) really addressed that shortcoming, by giving players a hand of PCs, so relevant cards could be picked and played. This is a fantastic solution, and would result in excellent political discussion, EXCEPT:
They shot themselves in the foot with the dumbest TI3 rule: you may trade in 1 PC for 1TG.
This results in almost all PCs being traded for TG, and political voting is just like base game...random laws come up with 60% chance nobody cares. Boring!

THE VERY BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS ELIMINATE THE TRADE PC FOR TG RULE. Just doing this improves the political arena immensely!!!

Now, if you still want to look into further fiddling, you could see Removing Political Chaff. I myself don't like the culling idea, and would read The argument against "culling" the Political Deck for my reasons, especially my multiple responses!

If you want Representatives....ha ha....I have a whopper of a post for you: Consolidated Politial Intrigue (Representative) variants/discussions

Again, the CORE, VITAL COMPONENT is use Assembly SC, but eliminate the PC for TG rule.

After that, I would increase each player's starting PC hand to 4.

And, think outside the box about how to use PC to benefit you. I believe a large number of TI3 players totally underuse the political phase, because they only use it to try and get a PC that directly benefits them into play. For example:

A law is up that hurts you. OK, not cool. BUT....does it hurt you more than anyone else? Or, does it actually hurt your competition more?
Let's say you're L1Z1X and have been buying tech to beat the band, running up an impressive lead. You're thinking about going whole hog and jumping deep in the tree, when....the law that ups the price of tech comes out. If it passes, you're going to have a hard time going deep in the tree. So, bad. But much worse for your opponents, who will probably never catch up to you! You want that law in place. But don't tell them that--heck, you may be able to extort some TG ('in exchange for abstaining') and get even farther ahead gamewise.

I love getting laws passed that help the underdog. Frequently, they're out of winning contention anyway, and they are grateful for you acting the hero, especially if you get a TG or two out of them. A TG is a lot more valuable than nothing, if it cost you nothing!

Another situation: you're at war with an opponent "Sam", who has a bigger military. The two of you are tied for point leader, so no one is going to vote for a law that helps you win the war. On the other side of your enemy is "Fred" who is slightly behind both of you. Conventional wisdom is; you don't want to help "Fred" because then he could be even with you. Well, sure. But think outside the box...you win your war, you've got a good chance of winning the game. It's a gamble, but the dice are in your favor. Vote for something to help "Fred". Even if you can't get "Fred" to ally, "Sam" will wonder if there is a secret...maybe divert a few ships to watch his backside....and you have effectively eliminated a few ships without firing!
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Phil Triest
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I second banning Tribes. The race completely breaks the game and should of been nerfed long ago by FFG... So ridiculously OP and yet FFG has done nothing that has really nerfed them enough with both expansions.
 
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bob mackenzie
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my 2 cents on race banning - yssiral tribe (newbies could be allowed to use since they wont take full advantage of there racial specials usually, u could also try adding house rules to the tribes, as in they get 2 skips per round or have a action card limit or something).
ghosts of crues
aborec
virus

most the ones from the shards expansion are really for experienced players (and newbies shouldnt take them). not that they are really hard or really good, they are just alot different and need you to majorly adapt your strategy to a different play style.

although you have time on your side, you should decide what add ons suit u guys, remembering that too many may cripple the games fun because of newbies getting overburdened with information. i.e space mines and refineries, although i love them, newbies often dont remember because of everything else happening, and mines also can have a turtle affect.

Additionally, i personally find intrigue useless, as in it gives no reason for picking the strategy card (no primary bonus or secondary) so often times in games no one will get it just for this reason. to eliminate this you guys may have to tweak the card, such that it gives bonuses from other yellow strategy cards.

anyway all my opinion
 
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