Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
62 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: United States Printing rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Who else would rather pay a few more dollars to not deal with Chinese printer garbage. Months tacked on to slow boat release dates, dock strikes, customs, fracking, misprints, etc.. Here's an idea, spend a bit more, give us the jobs and when the printing stops the game is somewhere like friggin Ohio so you can recoup money and begin making profits faster. Time is money too in business is it not?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jumbit
China
Zhejiang
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Because the difference really is that much. It's worth dealing with all the crap of customs, Fedexing samples, shipping, etc. The financial numbers aren't "we won't make as much money", the numbers are "this is a non-starter and we will lose money, so better to cancel the project now and save ourselves a lot of work."

A lot of people have spent a ton of effort making factories in America cost way too much in order to accomplish their political goals. They succeeded.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G Schulteis
United States
Bourbonnais
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Where did you come up with your 'a few more dollars' estimate?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
We make plenty of things here still, this is cardboard and ink people. Negotiate. A finished game like Sheriff of Nottingham is 99% most likely to currently cost around $5.00 to produce in China if its end price at Miniature Market to us at retail is $23.50. These are estimates but I am pretty sure in the ballpark. If the cost here is $15.00 per to produce, cutting everything out with logistics shipping and again, most importantly TIME, I would be willing to pay $37.50 for Sheriff of Nottingham all day long. Upper Deck is in Carlsbad California people, I dont want to hear your defense for Chinese garbage. Upper Deck I am sure would love to talk about printing your next game...if they enjoy business.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernard Donohue
United States
Newark
California
flag msg tools
badge
Kneel puny Doomtrooper before the might of the Ezoghoul!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Small Box Games uses domestic manufacturing. They generally have very small print runs on their games (around 500 pcs).

There has been a recent increase in companies "on-shoring" manufacturing. Partly due to rising transportation costs, but I believe mostly driven by rising labor costs in China.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Exactly, costs are rising in China as well and we are all well aware of rising transportation costs...and again time is money, there are companies missing the holiday season for sales im sure, trying to get stuff ready for U.S. cons, paying to air ship copies to get it done. I just dont think its worth it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Another thought, basically if a company was to change, and print here, im thinking their games would be $39.99 for something like Sheriff of Nottingham, a low number of easy components, and rise in $10 increments for more components and minis. $39.99 - $69.99. Im sure this is feasable, now lets start a list of American printers. USAopoly which does all the oldies is here as well, I am not sure though that they print here or if Upper Deck actually prints their own stuff here, Upper Deck still does I believe, and Ultra Pro makes all your sleeves and accesories in Cali.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Uniform13 wrote:
I just dont think its worth it.


Why do you think that you understand game publishing financials better than the companies whose livelihoods depend on those financials?
24 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Im posting thoughts and opinions and trying to further understand, you have nothing to add so goodbye, and companies fail everyday.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derry Salewski
United States
Augusta
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
I'm only happy when it rains...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Uniform13 wrote:
We make plenty of things here still, this is cardboard and ink people. Negotiate. A finished game like Sheriff of Nottingham is 99% most likely to currently cost around $5.00 to produce in China if its end price at Miniature Market to us at retail is $23.50. These are estimates but I am pretty sure in the ballpark. If the cost here is $15.00 per to produce, cutting everything out with logistics shipping and again, most importantly TIME, I would be willing to pay $37.50 for Sheriff of Nottingham all day long. Upper Deck is in Carlsbad California people, I dont want to hear your defense for Chinese garbage. Upper Deck I am sure would love to talk about printing your next game...if they enjoy business.


I don't value giving a factory dude a job instead of a dockworker a job at 14 dollars per game.

I've got better things to spend thousands of dollars on.

Thanks for offering, though.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thats a fair point, lol. It would add the job though, not instead of.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Apostle Green
United States
Lake County
Illinois
flag msg tools
That is not dead which can eternal lie
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some posters might very well be willing to pay a premium for domestically-produced goods. Unfortunately, not enough people are apparently willing to do so to make the additional expense worthwhile for manufacturers.

Many people may lament the outsourcing of jobs overseas, the labor conditions and standard of living for the workers who produce these goods, political situations in some of those producing nations, etc., but at the end of the day, a significantly larger number of people apparently will purchase Sheriff of Nottingham at a $23.50 price point versus, hypothetically, $37.50, just as many people might stop buying Nike shoes if they retailed for $250 instead of $100 or less (for a decent mid-range pair; yes, I know that the top-tier pairs do in fact approach $250.) And don't get me started on anything electronic... if you'd rather pay $2200 for that tablet instead of $800 just to have it "Made in USA", that's admirable, but you're in a minority.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Very true sir, I'm thinking as the prices rise in China and the gap closes there a bit more, as well as no China shipping costs and the time gained being here when finished it might end up being far closer to the same prices - a wash, sooner than people might think.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff
United States
Natick
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I want to believe
badge
*distinctive theme song whistle*
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
People already complain about the number and quality of components in games for their costs. I've seen this very argument levied against the Sherrif of Nottingham. I suspect the impact to image, buzz, and business is not as negligible as you predict.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Upper Deck is in Carlsbad California people, I dont want to hear your defense for Chinese garbage. Upper Deck I am sure would love to talk about printing your next game...if they enjoy business.


If the Upper Deck model is the solution to bad production in China, you should go check a look at the Legendary and Legendary: Encounters forum about people complaining about missing cards.

Factory employee incompetence is not related to China. It's a human, world-wide, trait. The U.S. would produce cheap knockoffs of everything too if it could do it like in China, like everyone else. Companies cutting corners is a universal way of doing things.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Uniform13 wrote:
Im posting thoughts and opinions...


No, you are posting vague conjecture and accusatory hypotheticals without any visible attempt substantiation or acquiring real data.

Quote:
...and trying to further understand...


I doubt.

Quote:
...companies fail everyday.


Yes, they do, as they should. Some few of them also succeed. (I primarily work at startups)
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Uniform13 wrote:
Very true sir, I'm thinking as the prices rise in China and the gap closes there a bit more, as well as no China shipping costs and the time gained being here when finished it might end up being far closer to the same prices - a wash, sooner than people might think.


It's going to move to another emergent market. Not the US.

In the 60s/70s, everything cheap was made in Japan. Then Japan got it's economy Rolling doing these cheap products and it became more expansive to produce there.

... so it move to Singapore and Taiwan in the 80s. Every product we had was made from there.

... and they got their economy Rolling and it wasn't as cheap as before so company started to manufacture in China.

... China is taking a lot of time compared to those other countries because:
- They are much bigger
- They underevaluate the value of their money on purpose to stay at low-prices (communism and all that).

In time, it's going to cost higher in China. But it'll just move to India or Africa or anywhere else really... It's going to take centuries before it becomes more profitable to produce locally imo.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
J.C., do you contribute the same amount of knowledge and "thinktank" help to these startups as in this thread? Accusatory hypothetical thought is you are an overpaid reason to help along quick failure from a business owner that doesnt know what they are doing. But thats all heresay..
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ya Martin, sadly i would have to agree. It would be nice to see someone try here though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Uniform13 wrote:
J.C., do you contribute the same amount of knowledge and "thinktank" help to these startups as in this thread?


Less than 5 minutes of effort spent consulting publicly auditable resources would answer that question, as well as that of the success rate of the startups I have worked for.

Quote:
But thats all heresay..


Clearly.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alysa
Netherlands
Zoetermeer area
flag msg tools
Garfield
badge
Never trust a smiling Garfield!
Avatar
Uniform13 wrote:
Another thought, basically if a company was to change, and print here, im thinking their games would be $39.99 for something like Sheriff of Nottingham, a low number of easy components, and rise in $10 increments for more components and minis. $39.99 - $69.99.


Ahh so the prices would increase then huh? Which means the international prices would also increase.

The game you mention, Sheriff of Nottingham, is sold here in the Netherlands for €35 ($44) already, if the costs of printing go up that price is going up as well and for a game like this 35 euros already is on the high side!

And if you don't want to use Chinese printers, why not use European ones? Works too, or is there another reason you want to use American printers?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just this morning I read a post about the delays in the release of Roll for the Galaxy because of production problems.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/17584830#17584830

As Tom points out, a large US company is handling the printing and assembly, and they have done a terrible job. I'm not saying this is true of every US printer, or even of every Hasbro job. But it certainly casts doubt on the claims that quality is always better in the US.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernard Donohue
United States
Newark
California
flag msg tools
badge
Kneel puny Doomtrooper before the might of the Ezoghoul!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Uniform13 wrote:
Very true sir, I'm thinking as the prices rise in China and the gap closes there a bit more, as well as no China shipping costs and the time gained being here when finished it might end up being far closer to the same prices - a wash, sooner than people might think.


It's going to move to another emergent market. Not the US.

In the 60s/70s, everything cheap was made in Japan. Then Japan got it's economy Rolling doing these cheap products and it became more expansive to produce there.

... so it move to Singapore and Taiwan in the 80s. Every product we had was made from there.

... and they got their economy Rolling and it wasn't as cheap as before so company started to manufacture in China.

... China is taking a lot of time compared to those other countries because:
- They are much bigger
- They underevaluate the value of their money on purpose to stay at low-prices (communism and all that).

In time, it's going to cost higher in China. But it'll just move to India or Africa or anywhere else really... It's going to take centuries before it becomes more profitable to produce locally imo.


I am by no means an expert on overseas production, but I'm somewhat familiar with it. My industry (promotional products) is almost entirely reliant on overseas production of the blank items. The vast majority made in China. I was speaking with one of my suppliers about this issue the other day. He said the problem was that while they could find plenty of places with cheap labor, it was difficult to find somewhere that also had a strong manufacturing base, solid infrastructure and reasonably stable government.

Some other source will rise, but it takes time. He mentioned that India was a likely candidate, but not ideal. Not sure why, we didn't speak for that long, it was more in passing while I was trying to get a project quoted out.

In terms of willingness to pay a premium for Made In USA products, I get the occasional customer looking for that. For example a drawstring backpack that will cost $2 for a Chinese item is $7 for the Made in USA version. The only ones who end up buying are the ones who specifically must have domestic items.

As for games, I do have doubts that a majority of gamers would pay a premium. It seems many would rather not pay a 20-30% premium to support local stores over online merchants.

8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This week the Wall Street Journal had an article about a company that is selling wool sweaters that are made entirely in the US. The article describes the challenges that the company management had to overcome in order to achieve this. I thought it was interested reading. It shows that, in the end, they did manage to produce sweaters that were entirely US made, but it also shows that people who manufacture overseas do it for multiple reasons, and cost is only one of them.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Houle
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Im talking about talking to an already established in the US printer, which means a purely monetary issue. If you coould negotiate the terms of roughly double what it would be in China, it would be interesting to see the numbers after taking out the shipping and factoring in an almost 2 month quicker window to retailers for things like the holidays. For instance i just backed the Daybreak Werewolf kickstarter and already have my copy because i paid an extra $5 to have it airshipped while everyone else waits until February 2015, missing the holidays. Thats $5 extra per copy for a tiny game that should be enough to print in the US and already be available to everyone...?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.