Tony
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Our group continues to have trouble getting the humans to win (even when using the official suggested easier setting -- with 2 more of each resource, and even after reading and implementing many of the strategies mentioned on BGG). Out of 10 games now (one with 4, several with 5, and a couple with 6 players), most have been slaughters in the Cylon's favor. Only once or twice did the humans come close (but they still lost).

I actually feel we are getting pretty good and efficient, but we are just not advancing along the jump track fast enough to win even when doing everything we can to help make this happen (including doing everything we can to look at cards and risking an early jump from time to time).

So, I was reading the Pegasus rules, and I noticed this subtle difference that seemed like it might help in the base game.

In the base game, when a Cylon uses the Caprica action, it says you do not advance along the jump track if it has a prepare to jump icon. However, in Pegasus, it explicitly says you do.

It seems to me this would really help the base game, and I'm curious what folks think about adding this change to the base game without using Pegasus (which I currently don't own)?

Is it in Pegasus and not the base game for a reason? There already seem to be a few other things in Pegasus that help the humans (some great characters, some new actions that let you advance along the jump track, etc.), in addition to this new rule.

Not sure why it works in Pegasus but not in the base game. So, I'm thinking about adding it but want to make sure it won't break things too much in the humans favor before I do so. Thanks!
 
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Hendrik R
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There's no hard reason why it's in Pegasus and not in the base game. I wouldn't say the base game version is unbalanced, but it definitely makes Caprica the most powerful Cylon location, except when you have a strong fleet presence on the board. In the base game, it was the usual go-to for revealed Cylons. In Pegasus, they got some more options, mostly Treachery, though the Pegasus version of Treachery is doesn't work very well either. Bottom line is that you won't break anything when you include this in the base game. It is probably even a softer tweak than just adding two of each Resource, which seriously changes the relevance of Fuel and Food.

I know you didn't make this thread for advice, but would you like to give some details about what your group's biggest problems usually are, and what you have tried to cope with them?
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Yes, I think more details would be helpful. The humans should not be getting slaughtered with 2 more each resource - that is already a massive change. The Caprica change pales in comparison to +2 across the board.
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Tony
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Thanks for your thoughts Hendrik... very helpful, especially when you use the suggested fix of increasing each resource by two as a point of reference.

Several things can go wrong, but I've consistently noticed we have trouble advancing along the jump track. Even if things start off well, we eventually get a string of 3-4 or MORE cards in a row that don't allow us to move along the track (including sometimes when a jump icon is pulled on a Cylon turn).

I've ready everything I can about doing better, and have tried the following:

(1) Really shuffling and randomizing the cards. But, with 30 of 70 crisis cards NOT advancing you along the jump track this doesn't seem to help much.

(2) We use Launch Scout and risk a raptor to look at the top card of the crisis deck whenever possible. At this point we usually do this until we have no raptors left.

(3) We risk a population (and one time 3 population) to jump early if we find ourself in with an unmanageable number of cylon ships on the board.

(4) We usually use Laura Roslin simply be cause she lets you look at 2 and pick one crisis card.

(5) And, we use executive orders as much as possible to get double actions (we typically don't use them to move and take an action). This helps us use Launch Scout more and still get a second action.

(6) We are pretty strategic about the destination cards... we try to make it so we end up at 5 when we hit the sleeper agent phase so as not to have too many cylons working against us too early. The times we get closest is when we have to do 3 jumps plus the final jump, but this only happens about 1/4th of the time.

In the end we just run out of one resource or another before we can do that last jump (and usually one jump before the last jump). Of course, we also do whatever we can to manage resources, but there is only so much you can do for food and fuel (the things we are usually run out of).
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Neil Armstrong
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Wow. Doesn't really sound like you're missing much, scouting and XO are the big ones. With fuel at +2 to go 8 distance I don't see how you're running out unless you constantly have cylon Admirals. The worst you can feasibly do is a 1:1 fuel-distance ratio and that still leaves a cushion of 2.

Are your cylons usually revealing, or staying undercover until the end?

Two things that I can think to add is that Quorum usage can help with food, and base game ICs are really strong since they reveal destiny. We try to IC every check when we're playing base game.
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Matt Clementson
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Another common mistake is trying to pass every skill check. Sometimes it's more beneficial to deliberately tank a check as the saved cards are more valuable than the lost resource. Population and Fuel are the ones to conserve as there are no/very few ways to get those back and the ones that are always going to get hit. The Quorum cards can help with Morale and in the base game where you don't have executions, Morale is probably the safest resource you can occasionally afford to sacrifice.
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El_Tonio wrote:
It seems to me this would really help the base game, and I'm curious what folks think about adding this change to the base game without using Pegasus (which I currently don't own)?
Go for it. No big harm if everyone knows in advance.

El_Tonio wrote:
Is it in Pegasus and not the base game for a reason? There already seem to be a few other things in Pegasus that help the humans (some great characters, some new actions that let you advance along the jump track, etc.), in addition to this new rule.

Not sure why it works in Pegasus but not in the base game. So, I'm thinking about adding it but want to make sure it won't break things too much in the humans favor before I do so. Thanks!
When using Cylon Leaders / Sympathetic Cylons, advancing the jump prep marker without infiltrating supposedly helps with balance in being able to meet their Agendas. This rule was kept for Daybreak, where the CL used Motives instead of Agendas. Interestingly enough, this was also kept with just Exodus, so with ANY expansion, you use this rule.

I'd argue you can house rule revealed cylons can use Caprica without the jump icon counting, but it was met with neutral remarks.
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Ohh, as far as commonly missed things when it's typically in favor of cylon wins:

-do not draw a last a Destination card for the last jump
-When in Brig, do NOT draw a crisis card
-if you need to discard cards due to a crisis can don't have enough skill cards, you can still choose that option
-clear the board after each jump
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Adam Lucas
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Caimion wrote:
We try to IC every check when we're playing base game.


There's a big issue right there. Perfect intelligence is great, but Investigative Committee is a 3-5 Politics card. Politics is a common skill for skill checks and you're reducing the total power in your hands by doing so. Try to save Investigative Committee for the important skill checks that the Cylons would want to see fail. You'll know how much you need to play into a check or bully the unrevealed Cylons into being more helpful.

Except for Maximum Firepower the 3-5 skill cards are better off being used for skill checks than used for their effects. Even then you shouldn't need to use that very often to keep the raiders under control.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Trying to think of any other rules that you could miss to be so heavily pro-Cylon...

Revealed Cylons:
* can't use abilities (or drawbacks) on their character sheets
* draw only 2 cards [in the base game they can take any 2, the expansions change this to be 2 different colors, so you could try that as a minor rule tweak]
* can only play 1 card into a skill check
* don't draw a crisis (except by taking the action at Caprica)
* can't use text abilities on cards (except Treachery, which isn't in the base game)

As others have said, knowing when to let a check fail and conserve your resources is very important. Sometimes you can get a check where the fail is something really weak, like "send the current player to sickbay," in which case you can spend an XO later to let that player leave sickbay before his turn, so you're not losing 4 cards.
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InfoCynic wrote:
Trying to think of any other rules that you could miss to be so heavily pro-Cylon...

Revealed Cylons:
* can't use abilities (or drawbacks) on their character sheets
* draw only 2 cards [in the base game they can take any 2, the expansions change this to be 2 different colors, so you could try that as a minor rule tweak]
* can only play 1 card into a skill check
* don't draw a crisis (except by taking the action at Caprica)
* can't use text abilities on cards (except Treachery, which isn't in the base game)

As others have said, knowing when to let a check fail and conserve your resources is very important. Sometimes you can get a check where the fail is something really weak, like "send the current player to sickbay," in which case you can spend an XO later to let that player leave sickbay before his turn, so you're not losing 4 cards.
When you draw and resolve a crisis card at Caprica, skip the cylon ship icon in the corner.
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Svengaard wrote:
Except for Maximum Firepower the 3-5 skill cards are better off being used for skill checks than used for their effects. Even then you shouldn't need to use that very often to keep the raiders under control.


If you're not Investigating every check, then I'd argue for using 3 - Declare Emergency for its effect rather than its notional strength - 2 points when you need it most is more useful than 3 points on a check you're passing anyway. Of course, the fact you can only use one DE per check puts a limit on how far holding them back remains efficient, but still...

In general, I'm happy to use 3s for their text; 4s and 5s I'll try to use for their strength - though there are times when I'll play 3s into checks or play a 5 for its effect. With expansion cards, particularly Exodus and Daybreak where the top values also have unique effects, the choice between a hard-to-come-by useful effect and a significant contribution to a skill check is rather harder to make.
 
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Hendrik R
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While I'd say that trying to IC every check is going a bit too far, holding some of them back for the more important checks is definitely critical. I would also say that a general rule to use 3-5 value cards for their strength only is a recipe for failure. Robert mentioned the 3 - Declare Emergency, which I almost never play for it's value unless I have a second one around. And if you're not using any Strategic Plans on important die rolls, you're likely to lose more than you gain. Like the ICs, holding up Engineering in general and Scientific Research in particular can turn an important check from daunting to an easy pass.

It's been said a couple of times, but I'll also add that knowing which skill checks to take and which ones to let go is probably the most important 'Tier 2' meta-skill a group will learn in this game.
 
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Pieter
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One small thing I noticed is that you said you sometimes risk one population when you jump if you seem to be in an unmanageable situation. I'd say that indicates you are playing too cautiously. Experienced players USUALLY jump at -1, because it avoids having to deal with about 2 crises. Over the course of the game, always jumping at -1 will save you about 7 crises, at the cost of about 3 population. Unless population is really tight, that is usually worth it.

Cylons tend to win long games. Humans should win after about 35 turns in the base game. Do your games last longer than 40 turns? That's where your problems could lie.
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