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Subject: Eastern Spur rss

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Nik Degtyarenko
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I dont get something. Isnt it basicly defensless? Its 3 regions away from shadow starting position, it can get attacked within few action dices with army of 5 + leadership and bats. You only have 1-2 guys to defend it +3 fortification. And its worth 4 points.
In WoTR siege could only last for 1 round but in this game there are no such rules. Shadow can roll its dices untill end of the world. And he has 3-4 maneuvers cards to back him up.
 
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Nicholas
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You can defend it. First thing you can do is turn over a recruitment token with a general.
You could reinforce it with 2 character dies from the camp or you could give the dwaren veteran a leadership token and move him over there with one die. Makes sense to first recruit in the camp though.
Also, in case the shadow draws at least a 2 you could place Bilbo there.
Of course its very likely that you will lose it later in the game, but you can hold it in the beginning.
Also, as long as the fortification holds shadow hits only on a 6.
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Nik Degtyarenko
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Recruting in the camp is a bad idea. Shadow needs only few dices to attack and wasting whole action on camp is kinda strange.
Dwarf is a nice idea.
If i place bilbo there than i cant place him somewhere else and 2 guys at the ford will get owned.Especialy if you get event card that allows to move twice and attack.
Shadow have 5 dices and several maneuv cards to add dmg and leadership.
you are going to have 2-3 dices and very bad maneuver cards.
i playtested this 4 times times and shadow just go there, roll dices untill it kills everyone and takes few dmg in process. You get 4 points which almost secure beorn problem, you solve archer problem.
Its kinda limits my game. Always same moves and same result.
 
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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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Wyrtt wrote:
Recruting in the camp is a bad idea. Shadow needs only few dices to attack and wasting whole action on camp is kinda strange.
Dwarf is a nice idea.
If i place bilbo there than i cant place him somewhere else and 2 guys at the ford will get owned.Especialy if you get event card that allows to move twice and attack.
Shadow have 5 dices and several maneuv cards to add dmg and leadership.
you are going to have 2-3 dices and very bad maneuver cards.
i playtested this 4 times times and shadow just go there, roll dices untill it kills everyone and takes few dmg in process. You get 4 points which almost secure beorn problem, you solve archer problem.
Its kinda limits my game. Always same moves and same result.


You are mistaken if you think recruiting in the Camp is a bad idea, it is a very versatile spot on the board and crucial for defending the Front Gate.

It is very possible to raise a stiff defense at the Eastern Spur quickly, albeit at the cost of raising up defenses elsewhere. That is a lot of what WoTR is, the Shadow trying to hit where the Free are weakest, and the Free trying to decide where to build up to withstand the Shadow assault.

It is also worth pointing out that if the Shadow does go all out at the Eastern Spur on turn 1, that means they are not going to have Bolg any time soon, and it will be very difficult for them to ever get him with 3 Bodyguard tokens.
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Nik Degtyarenko
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Kartigan wrote:
Wyrtt wrote:
Recruting in the camp is a bad idea. Shadow needs only few dices to attack and wasting whole action on camp is kinda strange.
Dwarf is a nice idea.
If i place bilbo there than i cant place him somewhere else and 2 guys at the ford will get owned.Especialy if you get event card that allows to move twice and attack.
Shadow have 5 dices and several maneuv cards to add dmg and leadership.
you are going to have 2-3 dices and very bad maneuver cards.
i playtested this 4 times times and shadow just go there, roll dices untill it kills everyone and takes few dmg in process. You get 4 points which almost secure beorn problem, you solve archer problem.
Its kinda limits my game. Always same moves and same result.


You are mistaken if you think recruiting in the Camp is a bad idea, it is a very versatile spot on the board and crucial for defending the Front Gate.

It is very possible to raise a stiff defense at the Eastern Spur quickly, albeit at the cost of raising up defenses elsewhere. That is a lot of what WoTR is, the Shadow trying to hit where the Free are weakest, and the Free trying to decide where to build up to withstand the Shadow assault.

It is also worth pointing out that if the Shadow does go all out at the Eastern Spur on turn 1, that means they are not going to have Bolg any time soon, and it will be very difficult for them to ever get him with 3 Bodyguard tokens.

1. Front gates have nothing to do with recruting at camp on first turn to defend Spur. Camp is to far away to help.

2/ How? 2 archers and 1 dwarf is max that i can see.
And no game is not emiliar to wotr. In wotr siege only last for 1 round. You can easily have 5 units and destroy shadow 10 units. Or at least delay for many turns.

3.Why? Road for eastern spur is straight way to almost defenless camp. You have some chances to reach it on 1st round while still taking Spur.
Also there is another ford that 2 areas away from ruins of dale. After you finish with camp you can launc assault from 2 sides on dale and force free people to regroup in dale.
Especialy with event card that just cast 3 dmg on armies and some sprint cards(move 2 times and attack)
 
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Josiah Leis
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I think you may be losing sight of several key elements of the game.

1. Firstly, you are correct that this is not War of the Ring. Unlike the typical game of War of the Ring where the Free is on the defensive the entire time, in Battle of the Five Armies, the Free can and should mount well-timed counter attacks to wipe out Shadow forces after they have conquered objectives. So recruiting at the Camp is indeed a large part of defending the Eastern Spur, even if those units are never actually present when the Eastern Spur is assaulted. If the Shadow takes control of the Eastern Spur, only to have their now wounded army wiped out by a counter attack from the Camp, that is a definite win for the Free people.

2. How are two units (one of which could possibly be a dwarf veteran) and 1 dwarf veteran not a tough nut to crack? That is 4 dice with 2-3 leadership thanks to Bard (and the best unit maneuver card the Free people have). Throw in Bilbo and the fact that they have a fortification for the first few rounds AND the Shadow army does not have Bolg's leadership and you have a pretty decent defense there. This is not even counting the fact that there are a number of recruitment cards you can play to instantly recruit units there and possibly have a full five units there defending.

The Shadow is going to attack with what, 5 units and 2 leadership, max? Unless they spend an atrocious amount of action dice arranging their armies "just so". The Shadow is certainly capable of taking the Eastern Spur in this scenario, but not without taking several hits and in many cases failing to even scratch the Free Peoples army (thanks to Bilbo).

It is also worth pointing out that you do not have to have a leadership token and a C die to get the Dwarf Veteran that starts in the pass involved. Just moving him over 1 space with 1\2 an Army die will give Bard a safe location to retreat to. I have seen it happen in this scenario that Bard just retreats once the fortification falls, and then immediately counterattacks (gaining terrain superiority due to the Great Orcs being on the defensive) and wipes the Shadow army out (or severely mauls them) before they can rally. Granted, things may not always work out that way, but the scenario isn't far fetched.

3. I do not understand your logic here. You are saying that somehow the Shadow is going to take a defenseless Eastern Spur, then go straight away to a defenseless Camp, and then also manage to cross a ford and take Dale which is apparently also weakly held? Exactly WHAT is the Free player doing all this time? They've failed to muster any sort of defense anywhere! If this is the case they deserve to lose. Yes, if the Shadow takes Eastern Spur on Turn 1, that means no Bolg on Turn 1. Furthermore, if the Shadow takes Eastern Spur Turn 1, and manages to get a 3 Bodyguard Bolg on Turn 2, they are doing something pretty special or the Free player is asleep.



I will say that I agree with you that the Eastern Spur is the most vulnerable Fortification for the Free Peoples (somewhere had to be). It is not however, impossible to defend, nor impossible to retake once it is captured.

I think perhaps you may be in a bit of a War of the Ring mindset. In War of the Ring, many of the Strongholds are taken more by siege, with battles lasting several action dice or even several Turns before they fall. Also, usually once a Stronghold is taken by the Shadow, it is gone forever.

In BoFA, the battlefield is much more fluid. Fortifications while tough, are by no means impenetrable, but taking them is one thing, holding them another. Often, there are objectives that may change hands several times over the course of a game.
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Nik Degtyarenko
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1. Ohhh. I only now understood that fortification is breached. I will fight even fight without any debuffs unlike Wotr where retaking cities was really hard. I can rush here even with few units and do some dmg which will force shadow to move another army instead.
2. Cards are random so you cant count on them for the first round.
But dwarf. ******* 2 combat strenght, why ***** I could not comprehend that, even after reading his maneuver card. Yes, 4 dices against 5 with 2-3 leadership against 1 is rather good.
3. Well you need to put recruting tokens and than flip them. That will take half of 2nd round which will allow shadow to ether attack camp or dale. But now i see that its slightly problematic. Alive dwarf will reinforce camp and at least 4 archers will rech dale.

About you last paragraph. Yes, Being familiar with wotr clouded my mind. I undestood that from begining that why i posted here. I wanted someone to show holes in my logic.
Yhinking that strongholds lost forever is my main mistake. They breached and no longer grant defence bonuses. + hills favor me and not shadow army.

My real problem was with Bard.In wotr you dont have key character posibly dying on first round. Loosing 1 general before game even begin, that what felt rwally strange. I can retreat but shadow would chase me. Although that may be valid strategy. Loose all fortification healt and retreat. Few such retreats and im in camp while shadow lost lots of dices chasing 1 army or if shadow just ignored me than everything is even better.
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