B. B.
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What happens when the last Player Soldier has been downed (or medevaced)?

If there are no Player Soldiers left over in the Mission, the players will have no Hand of Action cards any longer.

-How could the rest of the soldiers (NPC and Squad Soldiers) move to new Location cards without being able to pay the Entrance cost?

-How could the players ever place a new Location card? And if they cannot and if there are no Location cards to reach the Objective, how could the players win the Mission?

In other words: Is the game automatically lost when the last Player Soldier has been downed (or medevaced)?
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Martin Gallo
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Game over. Sorry. If your NPSs are within range of the objective you might be able to take a couple of actions, but I do believe that once the players are out it is over unless you want to optional rule things.
 
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Vladimir Lehotai
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If the remaining NPSs/squaddies have no means to complete the objective (for example they have to play two more locations to even reach the objective), then you're pretty much done.
 
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Michael Andersch
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Really? I always played it this way, but I just looked up the rules and found (page 3, victory):

"The game ends in failure if you run out of game turns, or when the last member of your team has 0 Health remaining."


"Member" is not the same as "Player Soldier".
So, either the game continues, or this again is another place where the rules are...let's say....not so good.

 
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Mike Dudek
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Micha wrote:
Really? I always played it this way, but I just looked up the rules and found (page 3, victory):

"The game ends in failure if you run out of game turns, or when the last member of your team has 0 Health remaining."


"Member" is not the same as "Player Soldier".
So, either the game continues, or this again is another place where the rules are...let's say....not so good.



The rules are fine. We're talking technicalities here only. Sure, you may be able to continue with NPS or Squad soldiers, technically. But how are they going to play a location card if the path to the objective is not complete? Or pay a movement cost to get into a Location if their Move value is not high enough?

So despite the rule to the contrary, the game may well be effectively over if the last player soldier dies, unless it is right at the very,very end and everyone else is in position and has equipment to complete the objective.
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Micha wrote: "The rules are fine."

Not in this case ... I agree with Michael. The rule about the Victory of a Mission on p. 3 is a little bit mistakable.

This should be in the Errata. A change like this:

VICTORY
The game immediately ends in success when you complete
the Objective card’s requirements. Do not complete the
game turn.
The game ends in failure if you run out of game turns, or
when the last member of your team has 0 Health remaining, or when the last Player Soldier has 0 Health remaining and the rest of the team has no chance to complete the Objective card's requirements.
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Mike Dudek
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Sorry, disagree. There are certainly areas the Warfighter rules could have been better (welcome to a DVG game!), and there are issues that need to be addressed. This one is so minor.

I don't feel 'I need to play cards. I have no cards, and no way to get any. Therefore, I lose.' is such a leap of logic you need to be hit over the face with it in the rulebook.

At some point, you have to say the rules are good enough, and not write case after subcase, adding to the bloat. This isn't ASL, after all.
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Michael Andersch
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MJames70 wrote:
Sorry, disagree. There are certainly areas the Warfighter rules could have been better (welcome to a DVG game!), and there are issues that need to be addressed. This one is so minor.


Really? I think it is major. You can still win under lots of circumstances without having a player soldier left.
But if rules say you lose when your last player soldier is downed, then you lose (unless you houserule).

MJames70 wrote:
At some point, you have to say the rules are good enough, and not write case after subcase, adding to the bloat. This isn't ASL, after all.


Correct. This isn't ASL. It is a quite simple game. Regarding this, the rules are crap.
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Mike Dudek
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Still making a mountain out of nothing. I did not say the game ends when the last player soldier dies. The rules don't say that, either. But it most certainly can be effectively over when the last player soldier dies, regardless of what the rule says.

I agree that you can win without player soldiers, if they are at the objective, have weapons to hurt it, and don't need to pay or play cards for anything they do. How is it difficult to understand that if you NEED to pay a Move cost for a NPS or Squad soldier, or NEED to play a Location card to get to the objective, and cannot because there are no player soldiers with cards - YOU LOSE.

There are situations were NPS or Squad soldiers can finish the mission on their own. It should be equally obvious that there are situations where they can't without playing or discarding, which they can't do when there are no player soldiers with cards. Then you lose. Simple as it gets, and we don't need to go adding paragraphs of rules to cover something that isn't broken.
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Rob Derrick
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Micha wrote:
Really? I think it is major. You can still win under lots of circumstances without having a player soldier left.
But if rules say you lose when your last player soldier is downed, then you lose (unless you houserule).

You quoted the following:
Quote:
"The game ends in failure if you run out of game turns, or when the last member of your team has 0 Health remaining." - Rules, page 3, victory

So where's the problem? You have >0 members left? The game continues. If the members are only NPS and Squads with no possible way to complete the objective, the rules are clear that you can continue to play as long as game turns >0. So, play. Do you really need a rule to explain to you that if you cannot possibly win, you should call it quits? Or are you forced by the rules to soldier gamely onward, until at last, given a few, very short turns, it'll still be "Game over man!"?

"Why are you still playing man?!? You are fork ready!"

Grimly, "I've still got three turns left, and the rules don't give me an option to quit. They are Soooo Broken!"
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Martin Gallo
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We had a situation come up Saturday that was not even remotely discussed in the rules. One of the dice bounced out of the dice tray and rolled off the table. We both looked through the rules but could find nothing about this eventuality. We stared at each other for a bit and then started discussing what to do. At one point we were thinking of just throwing the broken game in the fireplace. Since this was my game and there was no fire we battled on. I own other games and we consulted a couple but could not find anything even remotely similar to such a situation. We did note that at no point in ANY of the rule books we consulted was a dice tray even mentioned!!!

Fortunately we were able to agree on a house rule that that die was simply re-rolled (into the dice tray). Thank the law of averages that it did not hit the other die already rolled in the tray!

whistle
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Mark Buckley
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I think your problem arises because the rules did not say that you CAN use a dice tray. Therefore you can't. I don't think you can say that the rules are broken if you used illegal equipment - they can't be expected to cover that, surely?
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Martin Gallo
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hemulen wrote:

I think your problem arises because the rules did not say that you CAN use a dice tray. Therefore you can't. I don't think you can say that the rules are broken if you used illegal equipment - they can't be expected to cover that, surely?
Holy COW!!! How did we mess that up?!?!?blush
 
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Mark Buckley
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martimer wrote:
hemulen wrote:

I think your problem arises because the rules did not say that you CAN use a dice tray. Therefore you can't. I don't think you can say that the rules are broken if you used illegal equipment - they can't be expected to cover that, surely?
Holy COW!!! How did we mess that up?!?!?blush


It's easily done - when my copy of Warfighter arrived, I couldn't see anything on the box telling me to open the box, so I thought I would be unable to play
 
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Tristan Hall
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hemulen wrote:
martimer wrote:
hemulen wrote:

I think your problem arises because the rules did not say that you CAN use a dice tray. Therefore you can't. I don't think you can say that the rules are broken if you used illegal equipment - they can't be expected to cover that, surely?
Holy COW!!! How did we mess that up?!?!?blush


It's easily done - when my copy of Warfighter arrived, I couldn't see anything on the box telling me to open the box, so I thought I would be unable to play


How did you get your packaging open? Mine didn't come with rules instructing me how to open it. Hope the game is in there.
Etc...
 
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Mark Buckley
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ninjadorg wrote:
hemulen wrote:
martimer wrote:
hemulen wrote:

I think your problem arises because the rules did not say that you CAN use a dice tray. Therefore you can't. I don't think you can say that the rules are broken if you used illegal equipment - they can't be expected to cover that, surely?
Holy COW!!! How did we mess that up?!?!?blush


It's easily done - when my copy of Warfighter arrived, I couldn't see anything on the box telling me to open the box, so I thought I would be unable to play


How did you get your packaging open? Mine didn't come with rules instructing me how to open it. Hope the game is in there.
Etc...


You're right - I must have overlooked that! Luckily I knew that it was ok to open the door when the postman knocked...
 
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John Brown
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I feel like this is getting out of hand and very off-topic, so in an effort to steer us away from the rocks...

I disagree with those that feel this particular rule is a "major" issue and in fact, it seems to be pretty exact in both meaning and intent, IMHO. I do agree that Warfighter's rules have quite a few issues...more so than many of the other DVG rules I have experience with.
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