Robert Stewart
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(having come up in BSG439)

Scenario: human in the Brig, President plays the Quorum Card Execute Prisoner. The player chooses to come back as Tory. Do they get to draw two cards?

Relevant ability:

Adaptable: After any player uses the action on a Quorum Card, you may draw 2 Skill Cards of your choice (they may be from outside your skill set).
 
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Pasi Ojala
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My kneejerk reaction was no, but after thinking about it, yes. The Quorun card is still being played until the execution has been fully resolved. So the new character has been selected before the play of Quorum card ends, thus Adaptable is in play before its trigger happens.
 
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Carl Bussema
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It's important to establish consistency:

If President Baltar plays Inspirational Speech, can Tory fish for a Strat Plan before the die roll? I've heard some groups say yes. Those groups should not allow Tory to draw when coming into play via Execute Prisoner, since they are interpreting "after a player uses the action" to effectively be an interrupt in response to the action.

I would normally rule that Tory's ability is not (intended) as an interrupt; it should be done only after the action of the Quorum card is complete (thus no fishing for SP).

The third possibility is that when Tory is in play and someone chooses to spend an action to play a Quorum card, her ability sets up a delayed trigger, whereby after that action is complete, she draws two cards. In this interpretation, she does not get to draw when entering play via execution, because her ability was not around to set up the delayed trigger. Since delayed triggers are very much the exception in BSG, not the rule, I would not normally make this ruling either, but I wouldn't think you were completely crazy if you tried to argue it.
 
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It seems like you can make some technical arguments as to why Tory should receive the two cards, but it definitely seems strange that her ability would trigger because of an action that took place when she wasn't even in play yet.
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M. B. Downey
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InfoCynic wrote:
It's important to establish consistency:

If President Baltar plays Inspirational Speech, can Tory fish for a Strat Plan before the die roll? I've heard some groups say yes. Those groups should not allow Tory to draw when coming into play via Execute Prisoner, since they are interpreting "after a player uses the action" to effectively be an interrupt in response to the action.

I would normally rule that Tory's ability is not (intended) as an interrupt; it should be done only after the action of the Quorum card is complete (thus no fishing for SP).

The third possibility is that when Tory is in play and someone chooses to spend an action to play a Quorum card, her ability sets up a delayed trigger, whereby after that action is complete, she draws two cards. In this interpretation, she does not get to draw when entering play via execution, because her ability was not around to set up the delayed trigger. Since delayed triggers are very much the exception in BSG, not the rule, I would not normally make this ruling either, but I wouldn't think you were completely crazy if you tried to argue it.


If Tory was in play and the one being executed, would she get to draw before she did get killed? It could be marginally useful in some edge cases, like trying to get good timing on a deck reshuffle.
 
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Carl Bussema
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For reference, establish that A, B, and C refer to the three possible interpretations I define and that your group should agree on before play, pending any official ruling (which I'll go solicit).

If Tory is the target of execute prisoner...

A) "Draw immediately": Yes, Tory draws as soon as they declare the action.
B) "After resolution (normal)": No, she's dead by the time she would draw.
C) "After resolution (delayed trigger)": The ability is triggered, but when time comes to resolve the trigger, the source of the trigger is no longer in play. This gets murky (partly why BSG doesn't use delayed triggers normally). I'm inclined to actually let the new character draw, but you'll all think I'm crazy. But look at the closest parallel case I can think of: All Hands on Deck and Quick Thinking [Daybreak expansion cards]. We know that if the current player chooses to resolve AHOD, then uses QT to pick up AHOD, the remaining 0s in the check still have +1 strength, even those the source of that modification is no longer in play. Is AHOD really a delayed trigger? I'd say it has to be, as resolving skill check abilities happens earlier than totaling strength in a check.
 
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Robert Stewart
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InfoCynic wrote:
If Tory is the target of execute prisoner...

C) "After resolution (delayed trigger)": The ability is triggered, but when time comes to resolve the trigger, the source of the trigger is no longer in play. This gets murky (partly why BSG doesn't use delayed triggers normally). I'm inclined to actually let the new character draw, but you'll all think I'm crazy. But look at the closest parallel case I can think of: All Hands on Deck and Quick Thinking [Daybreak expansion cards]. We know that if the current player chooses to resolve AHOD, then uses QT to pick up AHOD, the remaining 0s in the check still have +1 strength, even those the source of that modification is no longer in play. Is AHOD really a delayed trigger? I'd say it has to be, as resolving skill check abilities happens earlier than totaling strength in a check.


I think the precedent here is playing an Executive Order on someone who is executed during their first action - they lose the second action because they're no longer the character who has the action. Or a Cylon who reveals on XO1 and is no longer eligible for the second action due to no longer being a valid recipient.

I'd say that when the delayed effect occurs, the player who is then playing Tory is entitled to draw cards - since there is no such player, no-one does...
 
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Carl Bussema
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Of course, the issue is moot if you don't subscribe to delayed-trigger resolution, and simply read the ability as a simple trigger, which is by far the more likely interpretation.
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Colonial One wrote:
It seems like you can make some technical arguments as to why Tory should receive the two cards, but it definitely seems strange that her ability would trigger because of an action that took place when she wasn't even in play yet.


Except that there is a precedent for a similar situation: if a player is executed (pre-Daybreak) via skill check and comes back as Adama, he can OPG to pick up the skill cards used in the check (see UFAQ).

The timing here is slightly different, but I'd rule that Tory can also use her ability after execution via Quorum.
 
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Colonial One wrote:
but it definitely seems strange that her ability would trigger because of an action that took place when she wasn't even in play yet.

But Adaptable does not trigger on the Action: of the Quorum card, it triggers after the effect of the quorum card has been resolved.

(You can argue what does Playing of a card mean to change when the After happens.)
 
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Robert Stewart
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And the official answer HERE is "no".

If Tory enters the game due to Execute Prisoner, she doesn't get to draw skill cards, nor if she's executed by it.
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Carl Bussema
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Thanks, I can never be bothered to find the original thread.
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