Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
88 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: How dare you have children without using a doctor! They now belong to us. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
From what I gather these two have three kids and didn't use a midwife. Or a doctor. So Washington state found out about the illegal children and took them away. Citing eczema as a health hazard on one of the babies.

Eczema? Really?

Best I can find is that CPS in Washington is trying to keep the kids. Maybe someone locally has more information? Like, you know, Meth was involved. Or tiny broken bones. Baby shaking. Malnutrition. Floor covered with animal feces. Something, anything, that explains why it's okay for a government agency tasked to protect children from harm seems to believe it is fulfilling that task by taking babies from their parents.

CPS is abusive

There are two subjects I have a personal policy of being semi-sane on in RSP. One is racism, especially the race-baiting aspect of it in RSP, the other is the abuse of children. In my view this is child abuse. Unless there is some local news from the area that uncovered something these people did, this is criminal.

My experience with the CPS here in Idaho is that they are a useless bunch of bureaucrats, primarily women with a hatred of men who almost uniformly treat men who report problems as if they are trying to use the CPS for retaliation and treat women who abuse their children like war heroes. No doubt they sometimes do save children from terrible things but saving one child doesn't justify turning around and using authority to rip other children away from what appear to be loving, caring parents.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
Maybe they were trying to avoid something like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughte...

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
From what I gather these two have three kids and didn't use a midwife. Or a doctor. So Washington state found out about the illegal children and took them away. Citing eczema as a health hazard on one of the babies.


there has to be more to this. WA is ultra progressive and a natural home birth would usually get you more street cred.

Perhaps they should not have mentioned that they were Christians.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
she2 wrote:
Maybe they were trying to avoid something like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughte...



Unlikely. 1 in 10 people have some form of eczema. Home remedies are more common that store-bought topicals. Not being a doctor I would never say someone cannot die from a skin rash. But I can say, using common sense, that is 1/10 of the children in the USA have eczema then the CPS agencies of America have their work cut out for them. They need extra SWAT teams for child extractions and some of those Obama-tents the illegals are using so they have a place for the kids to sleep.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There is no Dana, only Zuul
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
she2 wrote:
Maybe they were trying to avoid something like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughte...


Quote:
Nine days after they returned from India, Thomas and Manju Sam finally took Gloria to hospital for an eye infection they thought was conjunctivitis, and she was immediately rushed into emergency to be treated by a team of medical experts. It turned out her cornea was melting.


OMG.

I wonder what the detail is, because that seems far reaching. As mentioned, it's not uncommon for NW types to be home-birthing, etc....so what was the extent of the health issue that prompted the authorities to react like this?


*edit - my "OMG" was for the idea of a cornea melting. I'm not equating the circumstances...just busy being horrified that a cornea would melt.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
DWTripp wrote:
she2 wrote:
Maybe they were trying to avoid something like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughte...



Unlikely. 1 in 10 people have some form of eczema. Home remedies are more common that store-bought topicals. Not being a doctor I would never say someone cannot die from a skin rash. But I can say, using common sense, that is 1/10 of the children in the USA have eczema then the CPS agencies of America have their work cut out for them. They need extra SWAT teams for child extractions and some of those Obama-tents the illegals are using so they have a place for the kids to sleep.


Most of them treat it, dude. They don't depend on homeopathic remedies like a couple of space cadets. But yes, I'd want more detail on it, such as whether the child was starting to get secondary infections.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WA and OR have had problems with hyperconservative anti-medicine parents letting their kids die, that would make CPS a little sensitive.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
xilan wrote:
she2 wrote:
Maybe they were trying to avoid something like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughte...


Quote:
Nine days after they returned from India, Thomas and Manju Sam finally took Gloria to hospital for an eye infection they thought was conjunctivitis, and she was immediately rushed into emergency to be treated by a team of medical experts. It turned out her cornea was melting.


OMG.

I wonder what the detail is, because that seems far reaching. As mentioned, it's not uncommon for NW types to be home-birthing, etc....so what was the extent of the health issue that prompted the authorities to react like this?


Not really applicable in the case in Washington. The little girl who died in Australia most likely had some underlying issues that were severe enough to kill her without medical treatment. The people in Washington showed poor judgement in my view by not engaging a midwife, but that's not a crime.

Both my son's girls were born at their home in Nevada with a midwife and her assistant. Just the cost savings alone make me wonder why millions more don't have their children that way. It's much less stressful and good training and licensing along with someone attending who is trained to recognize and deal with breathing issues makes it very, very safe.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe if bringing your kid to a Dr didn't get your children taken away from you, there wouldn't be so many parents who don't want to use Drs.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
Snopes is undecided. I guess we're going to have to see what happens here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jythier wrote:
Maybe if bringing your kid to a Dr didn't get your children taken away from you, there wouldn't be so many parents who don't want to use Drs.


The cases I'm thinking about go beyond that though, those are is "Prayer healing" territory.

Which honestly quickly becomes child abuse.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
United Kingdom
Durham
flag msg tools
Scheiß Inselaffen!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
there has to be more to this. WA is ultra progressive and a natural home birth would usually get you more street cred.


Sounds like free birthing rather than just a home birth, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bat Profile
United States
Sandworms USA
Plateau of Leng
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
3rd paragraph starts the crazy and it gets "better" from there.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
she2 wrote:
Snopes is undecided. I guess we're going to have to see what happens here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/cpshomebirth.asp

My wife is a member of an online group which often talks about home birthing. This case apparently came up there and the story was thought at least not to be entirely accurate. I don't know what is but perhaps judgment should be withheld. It does sound bad.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Salo sila wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
there has to be more to this. WA is ultra progressive and a natural home birth would usually get you more street cred.


Sounds like free birthing rather than just a home birth, though.


Pregnancy and labor are not illnesses.
4 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bat Profile
United States
Sandworms USA
Plateau of Leng
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:


I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Add in a dash of good old fashioned weird and you are good to go.


People have gotten their kids taken away for far less. ie: Reverend Magdalen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Normally, I'd agree, but there are a lot of pin-head bureaucratic people in agencies. I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens at the hearing as to whether the children are removed for abuse or not, but I wouldn't hold my breath as the information won't be made public with the children involved.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Personally, I think they're useless bunch of hacks who often use their power and authority to pursue their own personal agendas as people. most of them are women. The three times I have been involved with them I was treated like a piece of shit. The general attitude, expressed clearly by two of the CPS workers, towards me was that I was out of line trying to involve their agency in what amounted to a personal dispute with my son's mother. I still have the pictures on my PC of the deplorable conditions at her house that I provided to CPS to get them to force her to provide a safe healthy environment for his visits with her.

One agent did something. She called my son's mother and "scheduled" a visit. No shit. One of her daughters called me and told me her mom got a bunch of friends to do an emergency, urgent house-cleaning the day before the CPS visit. I shit you not, and I have pics to prove it.

Are some of them good people? Sure. Just like most cops aren't thugs and killers. But who do we focus on? The people doing their job? or the people abusing their job? Cops circle the wagons when one of their own becomes a criminal. So do the coworkers in any agency that has governmental authority... they all protect the bad elements in their field and that makes them all some what guilty in my eyes. Cops, CPS officers, parole officers, you name it.

I actually hope this story has something in it that will come out exonerating the CPS and showing that in this case they acted correctly and possibly saved a child. Snopes, by the way, isn't anything even like an authority on anything. It's a web site that generates clicks and is wrong often enough (and partisan often enough) that I treat it like Buzzfeed.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
she2 wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Normally, I'd agree, but there are a lot of pin-head bureaucratic people in agencies. I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens at the hearing as to whether the children are removed for abuse or not, but I wouldn't hold my breath as the information won't be made public with the children involved.


Oh, I don't deny it could be the case of a well-meaning but moronic CPS employee. I'm just going on record as saying that I'm skeptical that we're getting the whole story when only the parents are giving out information. If it turns out to be "the kids were removed for having eczema...oh and I guess maybe because we tried to treat it with gasoline baths and sandpaper...but really they're just judging us because we homebirthed!"
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
she2 wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Normally, I'd agree, but there are a lot of pin-head bureaucratic people in agencies. I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens at the hearing as to whether the children are removed for abuse or not, but I wouldn't hold my breath as the information won't be made public with the children involved.


Oh, I don't deny it could be the case of a well-meaning but moronic CPS employee. I'm just going on record as saying that I'm skeptical that we're getting the whole story when only the parents are giving out information. If it turns out to be "the kids were removed for having eczema...oh and I guess maybe because we tried to treat it with gasoline baths and sandpaper...but really they're just judging us because we homebirthed!"


Gasoline baths and sandpaper only works on ringworm Dave. Everybody knows that.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
she2 wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Normally, I'd agree, but there are a lot of pin-head bureaucratic people in agencies. I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens at the hearing as to whether the children are removed for abuse or not, but I wouldn't hold my breath as the information won't be made public with the children involved.


Oh, I don't deny it could be the case of a well-meaning but moronic CPS employee. I'm just going on record as saying that I'm skeptical that we're getting the whole story when only the parents are giving out information. If it turns out to be "the kids were removed for having eczema...oh and I guess maybe because we tried to treat it with gasoline baths and sandpaper...but really they're just judging us because we homebirthed!"


The whole story is based on the assumption that CPS is lying about why they pulled the kids out.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
she2 wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I'm skeptical across the board. I know people who have worked for CPS, and they have their hands more than full with actual cases of abuse and neglect. In spite of the occasional trumped-up story about overreach, they're generally not in the habit of snatching kids on shaky premises like those described here. And home births are incredibly common nowadays, they're certainly not unusual enough to attract CPS attention.

I'll give two-to-one that this has far more to do with the "alleged abuse" than home birth or eczema.


Normally, I'd agree, but there are a lot of pin-head bureaucratic people in agencies. I guess we're going to have to wait and see what happens at the hearing as to whether the children are removed for abuse or not, but I wouldn't hold my breath as the information won't be made public with the children involved.


Oh, I don't deny it could be the case of a well-meaning but moronic CPS employee. I'm just going on record as saying that I'm skeptical that we're getting the whole story when only the parents are giving out information. If it turns out to be "the kids were removed for having eczema...oh and I guess maybe because we tried to treat it with gasoline baths and sandpaper...but really they're just judging us because we homebirthed!"


Gasoline baths and sandpaper only works on ringworm Dave. Everybody knows that.


I need to keep up on my home remedies. I thought ringworm required amputation.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
At the price per gallon these days, I'd rather just take my kid to the doctor.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There is no Dana, only Zuul
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
Both my son's girls were born at their home in Nevada with a midwife and her assistant. Just the cost savings alone make me wonder why millions more don't have their children that way. It's much less stressful and good training and licensing along with someone attending who is trained to recognize and deal with breathing issues makes it very, very safe.


If you have insurance, there may actually be more out of pocket cost for the home birth if they're not specifically allowable in the plan (everything I've seen on mommy boards is that home births are an out of pocket expense, but you can get all your doctor visits and appointments covered as part of the normal insurance coverage). Many insurances will now cover midwives, but that typically means they need to have hospital privileges. I suspect that there is an issue with midwives getting privileges in WA only because my midwife is not able to deliver here - I have to go to OR to have a midwife attend.

There are lots of reasons to have babies in hospitals, and lots of reasons not to. Childbirth can be a critical medical situation and choosing to have birth at home is not without risk. The hope, of course, is that nothing will go wrong with the mother or child, or that if something does that there will be care and intervention available in a life-saving span of time. There's no universal right or wrong choice - it's balancing what the risks could be and if they're acceptable or ones that could be overcome.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.