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The Siege of Jerusalem (Third Edition)» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 rss

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Martijn vR
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So, here I'm faced with a reverse defence on two sides. My offensive firephase was.. lacking. Especially when all targets are behind the walls. Only one disrupted militia near the Temple.


But how to proceed now? Going on the walls/bastions, with both bastions having 30 AF trained on them, would be suicide. Even if one would survive, they would never be able to get down in the city. So, if I can't over the wall, then I'll have to punch through it. One breach was already in place, but the terrain behind it too restricted (and two neighbouring forts..). The setup of the rams was done in such a manner that they could go for the forts or the wall in between. Tried to deceive Alan here a bit. Not that it helped muchcry
Choice was to punch an extra hole, that together with the existing breach would enable a quick overrun of the New City. But first the breach had to be made.. which would take time. So the rams (blue) moved to the walls in the middle, while the rest kept a short distance from the walls.

As can been seen, the towers are in easy moving distance of both the central bastions as the two forts. All heavy artillery was behind the main line, to exploit new line of fire when breaches would be made.

In the east, the XVth moved just a hex closer to the walls, up slope.

In the west more or less the same happened: a carefull move towards the wall. Ram against it, Armoured tower couldn't make it, but will be available next turn.

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Henrik Reschreiter
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Really looking forward how the story develops.

Had this game for ages, but never played more than the initial assault of the campaign...always wanted to do the real thing though....
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David Hull

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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
VladNL wrote:


But how to proceed now? Going on the walls/bastions, with both bastions having 30 AF trained on them, would be suicide.


Well, let's do the math. You can put 6 archers on the walls and bastions (assuming one heavy infantry in each bastion to discourage counter-attacks) + 6 archers on Towers = 24-30 FP vs. 1 defense.

You are facing 60FP vs. 4 defense. On paper, that doesn't look so bad . . . the problem is your archers are mostly by themselves and face elimination on a DD, so that makes it a little more ugly. In addition, if he pulls back from the spots adjacent to the walls, half your units are at long range . . . not so nice. Could be done . . . but at a cost that is higher than I like. Agree that you are better off punching a hole so you can bring more archers (and artillery!) into the fray.
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Henrik Reschreiter
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
From faint memory, wasn't it four Roman divisions, and not just three as on the pictures, or is it really too long ago...?
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David Hull

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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
From faint memory, wasn't it four Roman divisions, and not just three as on the pictures, or is it really too long ago...?


It is four . . . the fourth legion is missing from this commentary. Look at the previous thread on setup to get an idea of what the fourth legion is doing.
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hull00 wrote:
hreschreiter wrote:
From faint memory, wasn't it four Roman divisions, and not just three as on the pictures, or is it really too long ago...?


It is four . . . the fourth legion is missing from this commentary. Look at the previous thread on setup to get an idea of what the fourth legion is doing.


Well, it's not missing. I wrote that it only moved one step up the slope.. nothing more. Too less action to warrant a picture, I thought.cool
Quote:
In the east, the XVth moved just a hex closer to the walls, up slope.
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
Really looking forward how the story develops.

Had this game for ages, but never played more than the initial assault of the campaign...always wanted to do the real thing though....


Well, I think Alan can use another adversary Join the fun!
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hull00 wrote:
VladNL wrote:


But how to proceed now? Going on the walls/bastions, with both bastions having 30 AF trained on them, would be suicide.


Well, let's do the math. You can put 6 archers on the walls and bastions (assuming one heavy infantry in each bastion to discourage counter-attacks) + 6 archers on Towers = 24-30 FP vs. 1 defense.

You are facing 60FP vs. 4 defense. On paper, that doesn't look so bad . . . the problem is your archers are mostly by themselves and face elimination on a DD, so that makes it a little more ugly. In addition, if he pulls back from the spots adjacent to the walls, half your units are at long range . . . not so nice. Could be done . . . but at a cost that is higher than I like. Agree that you are better off punching a hole so you can bring more archers (and artillery!) into the fray.


You will only be able to use velitae with the bastions, stacked with FHI the others won't do much.
Another option is roll all towers against the wall, drop the velitae/Foederatii on the wall/bastions and then move all Syrian archers on top of the towers. That way, you'll have another 18 AF, next to the 12 AF you already had. Only limited to the row directly behind the wall of course.
But like you say, will be bloody.
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David Hull

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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
VladNL wrote:
hreschreiter wrote:
Had this game for ages, but never played more than the initial assault of the campaign...always wanted to do the real thing though....
Well, I think Alan can use another adversary Join the fun!

I suppose if we can lure Alan into enough games, it might reduce the quality of his play! devil More likely it would just slow him down and we wouldn't want that!
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Alan Lipka
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Picked up 4 Reserves, and fired off a few arrows. In the NW ...



Gold stars are my Reserves ... circles are damage to the enemy. Orange square is Ram damage.

Movement follows, with the Reverse Wall defense denying Romans a clear passage into the NC ...



Pinching the flanks with Zealots, and trying to give the Roman several assault alternatives to pick from. I call this my "Let me mess with your head." strategy. Martijn may have a comment on its effectiveness ... laugh

----------------------------------------------------

In the NE ...



Took a D result in the corner Fort and let ben Gurion absorb it. At this point, he is the best able to recover, and I want the combat units intact.

ben Yair decides to hold a conference. Disrupted unit beat feat to listen.



Note the use of Militia to block the Breaches. Pushing the potential Roman attack out a hex or two means he cannot simply roll into the gap and have his way with pre-calculated odds. Now it will take some thought ... and his Melee advances will be limited to just 3 units. This is how I like to spend my Militia.

Note as well the Militia stacked with better units in the RWD (Reverse Wall Defense). They make the stack more vulnerable to missile attacks, but experience has shown that more often than not the good unit survives. Rotating formations like this in and out of the battle line simplifies thinking. I find that applying concepts like this is vastly better than trying to grapple with questions about what to do from turn to turn.

----------------------------------------------

And finally, we rotate the Disrupted units out of the Bastion to the south and replace them with Fresh ones.



That's it for Turn 1 !

Back to you, Titus !

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Alan Lipka
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
Had this game for ages, but never played more than the initial assault of the campaign...always wanted to do the real thing though....


Henrik, my dear fellow ... given the number of players following this Replay, there must be one who would enjoy a game with you.

It seems daunting, but in fact the time invested is not that bad ! The Sequence of Play makes each session fairly short. Movement in the middle game takes some time though, and some Melee Phases can take 4 or 5 notes back and forth.

Keep me on your dance card, Brother ... once I dispatch these pretenders I will be happy to waltz with ya ! That is, unless Martijn gets to you first. He needs to play someone other than me so he can try out some things.

All the best !

~ A
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Alan Lipka
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hull00 wrote:
VladNL wrote:
hreschreiter wrote:
Had this game for ages, but never played more than the initial assault of the campaign...always wanted to do the real thing though....
Well, I think Alan can use another adversary Join the fun!

I suppose if we can lure Alan into enough games, it might reduce the quality of his play! devil More likely it would just slow him down and we wouldn't want that!


Ha ! Well, as we all know from experience, the best thing about this Game is the social aspect. I find as much pleasure in the spirit of play as I do in the play itself. And being able to share the Game, the Replays, and the general conversation with people all over the world is immensely satisfying !

As for quality of play, I shamelessly admit to stealing strategy and tactics and Rules clarifications from all of my opponents. There was a day when capturing the New City was only a 50-50 proposition for me ... so listening to a discussion about how both the New City and Tyropean City assaults are a "given" ... and to actually know how to do it myself !, is something quite amazing indeed.

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Henrik Reschreiter
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Haha, many thanks for this... I might come back to this at some point in my life. But reading these posts makes it clear to me how unworthy an opponent I would be in the game at present.....sigh...
Let me watch you joust for a while, then we will see...

There would be very little 'given' for me I fear. Yes, I am sure I could somehow take the Romans through the first 1, 2 maybe even 3 AP, but the costs would be massive I am sure, the efficiency terrible, and the subsequent result predictable I fear...
And as the defender, we would see a great Roman run-away victory I would guess

Never played this against a real player, only once or twice 20+ years back solo...
But I generally love any game with a campaign concept, where one has to plan a bit into the future, and not just happily sacrifice everything in a last turn suicide run no matter the odds for instance because the victory conditions demand something special to be taken.
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Henrik Reschreiter
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
The detail, the quality of presentation, the graphics...this is just superb - some of the best I have ever come across in any AAR!!!

Your efforts are much appreciated!!!
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Alan Lipka
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
The detail, the quality of presentation, the graphics...this is just superb - some of the best I have ever come across in any AAR!!!

Your efforts are much appreciated!!!


Thanks, Henrik. It's a lot of fun to share stuff like this. Wait until we get into the real battle ! There are some really good strategy decisions coming up, and a number of excellent tactical applications. Of course, Martijn gets all the luck ... but I never complain ... whistle
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Peter Veenstra
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Hi Martijn, Alan,

Great fun!! Very nice AAR indeed!
I'm subscribed.. as Always!

Makes me wanna play again..
This still is one of the best games ever, perhaps even the best.
Everyone should have played this at least a couple of times!!

What tool do you use to get those nice graphics (arrows, circles)?


Regards,
Peter

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David Hull

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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
There would be very little 'given' for me I fear. Yes, I am sure I could somehow take the Romans through the first 1, 2 maybe even 3 AP, but the costs would be massive I am sure, the efficiency terrible, and the subsequent result predictable I fear...

That's how you learn! When I started playing ASL, I didn't win a game against my (expert) opponent for an entire year! A little demoralizing . . . but it certainly taught me the game!

hreschreiter wrote:
And as the defender, we would see a great Roman run-away victory I would guess

I do recommend starting as the Judaean . . . you are actually expected to lose your *entire* army (except ben Yair) every assault phase!

hreschreiter wrote:
But I generally love any game with a campaign concept, where one has to plan a bit into the future, and not just happily sacrifice everything in a last turn suicide run no matter the odds for instance because the victory conditions demand something special to be taken.

Well, that's one tactic this game hasn't eliminated. Because the Judaeans have an 80-90% replacement rate for the first few phases, you still engage in that final turn charge once a city area has been lost.

Send me an BGG email if you want to start a campaign . . . I might be a bit slow, and I'm not as good as Alan, but it would be fun!
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David Hull

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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Lipka149 wrote:
There was a day when capturing the New City was only a 50-50 proposition for me ... so listening to a discussion about how both the New City and Tyropean City assaults are a "given" ... and to actually know how to do it myself !, is something quite amazing indeed.

I've been playing a while and I certainly don't find the Tyropean assault a "given"! Guess I still have some learning to do as the Roman! As for the New City, the Roman player will often take it for granted and start putting more and more of his resources elsewhere, so he can still sometimes be in for a nasty surprise!
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hreschreiter wrote:
Haha, many thanks for this... I might come back to this at some point in my life. But reading these posts makes it clear to me how unworthy an opponent I would be in the game at present.....sigh...
Let me watch you joust for a while, then we will see...

There would be very little 'given' for me I fear. Yes, I am sure I could somehow take the Romans through the first 1, 2 maybe even 3 AP, but the costs would be massive I am sure, the efficiency terrible, and the subsequent result predictable I fear...
And as the defender, we would see a great Roman run-away victory I would guess

Never played this against a real player, only once or twice 20+ years back solo...
But I generally love any game with a campaign concept, where one has to plan a bit into the future, and not just happily sacrifice everything in a last turn suicide run no matter the odds for instance because the victory conditions demand something special to be taken.


Hi Henrik,

Believe me, I owned this game for 20 years (1993 IIRC), and played it like 10 times solitaire. At one time, Alan set up my arty. That was a whole new experience.. but still solitaire. Then, last year, I posted an AAR from my solitaire game in which I made it to AP4. (Don't ask how). Alan asked if we could play together AP4 since it was new to him as well.. and slaughtered my legions in 4 turns. They were running for safety. A bit humiliating, but lesson as well. I saw the Judeans do things I never did myself.. The current game is my fourth with Alan. Believe me, I learned a lot. Got slaughtered every time, but I think Alan will agree to me that I made quite some progress. No, it's no fun getting slaughtered, but it's the straightest way to understanding this game. So yes, if you want, I'd be happy to play with you. But you may choose Alan as well. He's got too much spare time anyway I wont be offended.
And Vassal is a great way to learn this game. You can try whatever you want, something you wouldn't be able to do in real life.. Here you can move the units around until you think the setup is good. Just give yourself the opportunity to learn it!

Best
Martijn
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
pveenstra wrote:
Hi Martijn, Alan,

Great fun!! Very nice AAR indeed!
I'm subscribed.. as Always!

Makes me wanna play again..
This still is one of the best games ever, perhaps even the best.
Everyone should have played this at least a couple of times!!

What tool do you use to get those nice graphics (arrows, circles)?


Regards,
Peter


Ha Peter,

Good to see you are 'around' as well. MJ also joining?

About that 'wanna play' - my offer still stands.. cool

Groetjes,
Martijn

PS: tool is photobucket. Allows you to place those markers quite easily.
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Peter Veenstra
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
Hi Martijn,
Just checked out Photobucket. works great!!
Thanks!
Regards
Peter
 
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Martijn vR
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Re: Campaign Game - AP I (Martijn & Alan) Turn 1 - 5
hull00 wrote:
VladNL wrote:


But how to proceed now? Going on the walls/bastions, with both bastions having 30 AF trained on them, would be suicide.


Well, let's do the math. You can put 6 archers on the walls and bastions (assuming one heavy infantry in each bastion to discourage counter-attacks) + 6 archers on Towers = 24-30 FP vs. 1 defense.

Somehow I completely missed that you wrote about those towers and I wrote the after that.. Too much into the game I think..
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