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Subject: Preliminary O&C thoughts rss

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El-ad David Amir
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For my latest Quetzal build I cannibalized the System Crash draft packs for several O&C cards (and one SS card) and spiked them with a couple of spoiled snow-jax cards. The result is promising - I am still not convinced that Anarch is going to become a competitive alternative to the other two factions, but FFG is definitely taking them in the right direction. The deck list I am currently using is available at the end of this post. My comments are based on around ten plays, so please take them with a grain of salt (also, only one of my opponents used spoiled cards, and he only went as far as The Source, so this is not a balanced playground). Please note that I'm only commenting on cards I actually played with, trying to keep theorycrafting to a minimum.

Day Job. While the cost of four clicks is prohibitive at first, opportunities to play Day Job crop up more often than I initially expected. I ended up upping this from two copies to three, I was generally happy to draw it and play it the following turn. The Corp does not know that they have a scoring window, and gaining eight credits is incredible - equivalent to a turn of Magnum Opus. I tend to believe that PrePaid VoicePAD build might utilize this instead or in addition to Lucky Find, if only due to the lower influence cost. In fact, I would not be surprised if Day Job (plus the Deadly Cutlery - Forked/Spooned/Knifed) might inspire more PPVP usage in Anarch.

Drive By. A bit more in the future, Drive By is due to appear in the third SanSan cycle data pack. It is another card which I was generally happy to draw, and decided to get two copies instead of one. While expose is generally not a popular mechanic at the moment, the added benefit of trashing your target is highly valuable - I think it might help Crim versus fast advance, for example, as they trash SanSan City Grid for two clicks. I suspect it might also change Corp playstyle somewhat, you want to rez your ASH/Caprice even if the runner is not running the remote to defend them from Drive By. Finally, it is extremely prohibitive versus Cambridge Personal Evolution builds, since you can snipe a three-advanced card with impunity. More testing of this is needed, but right now I'm excited with it.

Steelskin. I am completely blown away by the utility of this card, and I suspect it might become an auto-include 3-of in Anarch. First, it lets you remove Plascrete Carapace and still have reasonable Scorched protection; notice that the math is a bit trickier, though, and that a stray Snare! might snipe your Steelskin. Additionally, it provided much-needed defense against net damage. The fact that you MIGHT have Steelskin in hand totally changes the way a flatlining Corp plays. Plus, drawing three for a cred is entirely reasonable (again going back to PPVP as a potential econ card in Anarch), it actually does something against non-kill decks. It's another O&C card that I was always happy to draw.

Wanton Destruction. I was extremely excited about Wanton Destruction from the second I first saw it, and I'm glad to report that it definitely answers my expectation. The fact that Zeromus ended up yesterday's testing session with "WD is definitely stronger than I thought" was totally worth it. WD serves several purposes. One, you generally want to defend HQ versus Anarch turn one now. Heck, you want to double-ice HQ, similarly to how you play against Crim, so you can rez one ice to dodge casual runs while still keeping an unrezzed ice against WD. Two, when WD lands for the full three clicks, the Corp usually takes a significant blow - I knocked off ice, FA cards, damage cards, and agendas with impunity. Unclear whether you want two or three copies in Anarch, but right now I think that this is the most game-changing card in O&C as far as Anarch are concerned.

Vigil. While the combination with WD might seem counter-intuitive, these two actually play very nicely together. If the Corp are trying to keep a hand size of 4, your HQ runs are more effective, as are your WDs. I wasn't initially excited about Vigil, but it ended up being an extremely solid console. I think it's advantage over other Anarch options is that it's not customized to one specific use (same way Grimoire is for viruses or Deep Red is for Caissa). Getting that occasional card draw was useful, increasing the consistency of the deck (which is what the faction is lacking the most in my opinion). I don't know whether it will see play outside of Anarch (Desperado is still the king of consoles, and Shaper has Astrolabe and soon Comet) but in-faction is a great choice.



A Feather in Your Cap v0.2

Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

Event (16)
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
1x Forked (Order and Chaos)
2x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••
2x Recon (Second Thoughts) •••• (This is a placeholder for Drive By since NRDB.com does not have it at the moment)
3x Steelskin (Order and Chaos)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Wanton Destruction (Order and Chaos)

Hardware (6)
3x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount) ••••• •
3x Vigil (Order and Chaos)

Resource (6)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Utopia Shard (All That Remains)

Icebreaker (9)
2x Corroder (Core Set)
3x Knight (Mala Tempora)
2x Mimic (Core Set)
2x Overmind (Honor and Profit)

Program (8)
2x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
3x Keyhole (True Colors)
3x Parasite (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

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Ken Dilloo
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Thanks David,

For us mere mortals, Cambridge Personal Evolution build?
 
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Jardy koning
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Digging the decklist!

I'm reeeeaaallly excited to try out a PPVP valencia with eater, keyhole and access replacement events.

I feel MaXX is the most obviously powerful ID out of the box for anarch. on the other hand however, i think that valencia over time will shine through as a competitive anarch id.

Only time will tell but as a veteran Anarch fanboy i am super excited.
 
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bigloo33 wrote:
Thanks David,

For us mere mortals, Cambridge Personal Evolution build?


http://stimhack.com/regionals-cambridge-ma-2014-67-players/
 
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El-ad David Amir
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bigloo33 wrote:
For us mere mortals, Cambridge Personal Evolution build?

Sorry, my bad for relying on jargon too much. It's an ice-light, net-damage based Jinteki deck that uses Ronin, Cerebral Overwriter, and other ambushes in order to flatline the runner. A cool spin on it was played by Minh Tran, who was the finalist in Worlds this year:

http://www.acoo.net/deck/5101/worlds-championship-2014-2nd-m...

Here is the deck that Zeromus piloted, he's the one who won the Cambridge regionals with it:

http://www.acoo.net/deck/5044/worlds-championship-2014-19th-...

N7teslapunk wrote:
I'm reeeeaaallly excited to try out a PPVP valencia with eater, keyhole and access replacement events.

Valencia is definitely promising. The fact that you can Cutlery your way through central ice, and then Blackmail the remote, gives her a lot of flexibility.

I am not sure MaxX is the most obviously powerful - it seems to me that people have very different opinions. I agree that either way the Anarch is getting a bunch of shiny trinkets, and a lot of testing will be required to find their niche. I hope they get higher representation in Worlds next year, and plan to do my best to contribute to that.

In general, my new year resolution is to compete with a "non-standard" identity (not Kate, Andy, Gabe, or Noise).
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IirionClaus wrote:
Sorry, my bad for relying on jargon too much.


The thing that I need to read the Stimhack forums is a card-name-acronym expander.
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Interesting, I didn't think Wanton Destruction would be worth it without gaining clicks.
 
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DrTall wrote:
The thing that I need to read the Stimhack forums is a card-name-acronym expander.

I try to use the full name the first time I introduce a card in a post. If I ever miss that feel free to poke me

choux wrote:
Interesting, I didn't think Wanton Destruction would be worth it without gaining clicks.

You don't have to nuke everything all the time. Sometimes nuking half is enough. I thought Legwork + Demo Run is great, now I'm leaning toward two click WD followed by archives run.
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Brad McCoy
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I realized a few days ago that Day Job is 1 inf. Unexploited, it is a turn of clicking Opus. FOR ONE INFLUENCE, NO SET UP COSTS, AND NO MU. HOLY CRAP!

PPVP only makes it better, and any additional clicks let you combo it into nasty things, even something as basic as a run. With 8+ more credits outta nowhere!
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Lech Karol Pawłaszek
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IirionClaus wrote:
(...) Legwork + Demo Run is great,(...).


"Is my face stupid? How's that even possible?
A person can be stupid, but a face, that's impossible"

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmG4X9PGOXs)
 
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ikex wrote:
IirionClaus wrote:
(...) Legwork + Demo Run is great,(...).


"Is my face stupid? How's that even possible?
A person can be stupid, but a face, that's impossible"

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmG4X9PGOXs)


I think he was referring to a normal Wanton Destruction (i.e. starting with four clicks to trash three cards) is the equivalent of Legwork + Demo Run, which you are correct cannot be combined, hence why it is great.
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Lech Karol Pawłaszek
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Oh! Thanks Simon. Legwork + Demo Run sounds awesome (that's why I've played Demo Run w/ Nerve Agent) but WD takes whole turn, which doesn't sound as awesome.
 
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ikex wrote:
Oh! Thanks Simon. Legwork + Demo Run sounds awesome (that's why I've played Demo Run w/ Nerve Agent) but WD takes whole turn, which doesn't sound as awesome.


I mean this is/was my hang up too. But setting up a similar combo takes about just as much time (getting Nerve Agent up to 3 counters, installing 2 HQ interfaces, installing 3 Imps,..) and more credits. So it's a legitimate trade off you're making (unlike say Singularity). Also the action scales with how much damage you want to do. Like IirionClaus said, he's thinking of scaling it back to trashing 2 cards for 3 clicks. I'm beginning to think that one of the best aspects of the card is that you're not locked into how many clicks you lose, unlike Day Job.
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El-ad David Amir
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choux wrote:
I mean this is/was my hang up too. But setting up a similar combo takes about just as much time (getting Nerve Agent up to 3 counters, installing 2 HQ interfaces, installing 3 Imps,..) and more credits. So it's a legitimate trade off you're making (unlike say Singularity). Also the action scales with how much damage you want to do. Like IirionClaus said, he's thinking of scaling it back to trashing 2 cards for 3 clicks. I'm beginning to think that one of the best aspects of the card is that you're not locked into how many clicks you lose, unlike Day Job.

Well said. Trading a whole turn for three cards off the Corp's hand is oftentimes a great deal, and if you're burning for some agendas you could reserve a third click for a graveyard run. Right now I feel that Wanton Destruction is worth the deck slot (either at two or three copies, still undecided) even without bonus clicks. I did not mention Joshua B. or any similar cards since I did not test them in the context of this deck.
 
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scourged wrote:
I realized a few days ago that Day Job is 1 inf. Unexploited, it is a turn of clicking Opus. FOR ONE INFLUENCE, NO SET UP COSTS, AND NO MU. HOLY CRAP!

PPVP only makes it better, and any additional clicks let you combo it into nasty things, even something as basic as a run. With 8+ more credits outta nowhere!


The newly spoiled console Comet would be amazing there, you could day job into a stimhack to go from almost broke to nearly twenty creds and running!
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Re: WD:
I'm testing it right now with amped up; it's ridiculously powerful, imho. Even at the heavy cost of 1 brain, 2 cards, and a whole turn, it's difficult to describe how powerful it is to:
a) trash their _entire_ hand.
b) put it in their head that you could potentially do it again.

at least 2 times so far I've had opponents unwittingly throw the game b/c of reckless plays they thought they *had* to make or else lose the cards they'd re-drawn.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Voltorocks wrote:
Re: WD:
I'm testing it right now with amped up; it's ridiculously powerful, imho. Even at the heavy cost of 1 brain, 2 cards, and a whole turn, it's difficult to describe how powerful it is to:
a) trash their _entire_ hand.
b) put it in their head that you could potentially do it again.

at least 2 times so far I've had opponents unwittingly throw the game b/c of reckless plays they thought they *had* to make or else lose the cards they'd re-drawn.

My main problem with Amped Up in this context is that it could snipe your Wanton Destruction. I'm getting pretty good results with Utopia Shard (that trashes two), WD can trash three, so I'm not sure the jump up to five is worth the trouble. Not to mention that Amped Up oftentimes does nothing.

With that said, the box is coming in eight days, let's all test it then
 
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IirionClaus wrote:
Day Job. While the cost of four clicks is prohibitive at first, opportunities to play Day Job crop up more often than I initially expected. I ended up upping this from two copies to three, I was generally happy to draw it and play it the following turn. The Corp does not know that they have a scoring window, and gaining eight credits is incredible - equivalent to a turn of Magnum Opus. I tend to believe that PrePaid VoicePAD build might utilize this instead or in addition to Lucky Find, if only due to the lower influence cost. In fact, I would not be surprised if Day Job (plus the Deadly Cutlery - Forked/Spooned/Knifed) might inspire more PPVP usage in Anarch.


First off, thank you again for your thoughts on spurring the meta in new and interesting directions. Nasir is already taking over in my group, and I think finding valid strategies against him will be key to playing tournaments both in my area and further around in the near future.

As far as day job, there's an interesting post on Stimhack:
http://stimhack.com/quantanr-analysis-of-a-changing-meta/

Basically, it's already being predicted (insert huge grain of salt here) to replace Lucky Find in PPVP decks. Saves 3 influence and gives roughly the same same credit efficiency. Combine both Day Job and Lucky Find for massive money.

I was personally looking forward (a ways down the line) to making a Hailey rush deck with PPVP and replicator. The splash of Day Job, especially when Comet is out to give an extra click in the turn, will be very interesting.

Quote:
Quote:
I realized a few days ago that Day Job is 1 inf. Unexploited, it is a turn of clicking Opus. FOR ONE INFLUENCE, NO SET UP COSTS, AND NO MU. HOLY CRAP!


PPVP only makes it better, and any additional clicks let you combo it into nasty things, even something as basic as a run. With 8+ more credits outta nowhere!


The newly spoiled console Comet would be amazing there, you could day job into a stimhack to go from almost broke to nearly twenty creds and running!


This. This is what I'm talking about.
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Amped Up + Magnum Opus = 12 credits over a single turn. (Better than day job!)

While day job is a wonderful card, I'm left wondering if anarch players should start looking at MO as include in their decks. The main issue being that memory hungry decks might have a problem with it; the second issue being finding it with out all of the shaper support. MaxX + deja vu + clone chip ought to solve the finding it problem, though.
 
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gumOnShoe wrote:
While day job is a wonderful card, I'm left wondering if anarch players should start looking at MO as include in their decks. The main issue being that memory hungry decks might have a problem with it; the second issue being finding it with out all of the shaper support. MaxX + deja vu + clone chip ought to solve the finding it problem, though.

You forgot the third issue of the 5c install cost.

Three strikes ...

wanderingmystic wrote:
First off, thank you again for your thoughts on spurring the meta in new and interesting directions. Nasir is already taking over in my group, and I think finding valid strategies against him will be key to playing tournaments both in my area and further around in the near future.

Glad to hear that It's not just Nasir - there are a lot of potential builds out there that have been drowned by the AndySuckers and Katmans.

wanderingmystic wrote:
Basically, it's already being predicted (insert huge grain of salt here) to replace Lucky Find in PPVP decks. Saves 3 influence and gives roughly the same same credit efficiency. Combine both Day Job and Lucky Find for massive money.

The main downside is that you cannot Day Job and then run. Being able to (for example) Dirty Laundry from 0c to 5c, then Lucky Find to 11c, then run, is quite a potent move and keeps the Corp guessing as to your hand composition. I agree that Day Job has its place in PPVP decks (and I hope it leads to Anarch PPVP decks), but I'm not sure as three-of, and I'm not sure that it will completely replace Lucky Find.

As an astute reddit commentator pointed out, the theoretical analysis completely ignores the game state.
 
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IirionClaus wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
While day job is a wonderful card, I'm left wondering if anarch players should start looking at MO as include in their decks. The main issue being that memory hungry decks might have a problem with it; the second issue being finding it with out all of the shaper support. MaxX + deja vu + clone chip ought to solve the finding it problem, though.

You forgot the third issue of the 5c install cost.

Three strikes ...


Sure, but criminal decks have found space for the card. I think anarch is just about to the point that it has support for the card as well. Between http://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/07046 & djinn, memory isn't as big of an issue as it used to be. There are other forms of card draw available to anarch now as well. Drawing 10 cards or waiting on trickle draw off of earthrise.
 
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i agree with each of your thoughts here, OP.
 
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gumOnShoe wrote:
Amped Up + Magnum Opus = 12 credits over a single turn. (Better than day job!)

While day job is a wonderful card, I'm left wondering if anarch players should start looking at MO as include in their decks. The main issue being that memory hungry decks might have a problem with it; the second issue being finding it with out all of the shaper support. MaxX + deja vu + clone chip ought to solve the finding it problem, though.


If I'm gaining 2 clicks at the cost of a brain damage, those clicks had better get me more than 3 credits (Amped Up costs 1). I feel like if you didn't score points from a turn you were Amped Up, you probably didn't get enough value from playing it.
 
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IirionClaus wrote:
wanderingmystic wrote:
Basically, it's already being predicted (insert huge grain of salt here) to replace Lucky Find in PPVP decks. Saves 3 influence and gives roughly the same same credit efficiency. Combine both Day Job and Lucky Find for massive money.

The main downside is that you cannot Day Job and then run. Being able to (for example) Dirty Laundry from 0c to 5c, then Lucky Find to 11c, then run, is quite a potent move and keeps the Corp guessing as to your hand composition. I agree that Day Job has its place in PPVP decks (and I hope it leads to Anarch PPVP decks), but I'm not sure as three-of, and I'm not sure that it will completely replace Lucky Find.


I'm very interested to see if this means people will opt to run lucky find AND day job to have options for money +/- runs in the same turn.
Granted, that's a fair chunk of influence. Maybe run 2 LF and 2 Day job for the same cost?
I really can't wait to try this with Comet (which is still a few months away) and see if run events combo well with this or are a bit too combo dependent to be competitive (read: janky).
 
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El-ad David Amir
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wanderingmystic wrote:
Maybe run 2 LF and 2 Day job for the same cost?

That seems like a reasonable solution. An Anarch should be able to run 3x LF, 2x Day Job (which is the composition I'm leaning toward now - plus 3x Daily Casts).. I keep cycling between 2x and 3x copies of Day Job in my build; it's a great draw, but the cost is intensive in many game situations.
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