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Subject: Holocaust Perpetrator Reading List rss

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William Boykin
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Sooooo....I missed getting into the locked thread, and I'm not going to go into it. However, the immense output of comments (albeit mostly from Slater and Dr.WhoWho) made me realize that there was a fair amount of interest in the subject matter.

There are tons of books on the Holocaust, but not that many that focus upon those who were responsible for the killings. Here's a good reading list for those who want to delve a bit more deeply into the subject matter.



Death Dealer, by Rudolf Hoess, the former Kommandant of Auschwitz, is a good one to start with. Written while he was imprisoned by Polish authorities after the war, it goes not just into his account of the operations of Auschwitz and its evolution as a death factory, but it also goes into his life and how he got sucked up into the SS and the Final Solution more specifically.



Into that Darkness, by Gitta Sereny, is one of my personal favorites. Ms. Sereny interviewed Franz Stangl, the former Kommandant of Treblinka, about how he got into the SS from being a low level police official in Austria, and from that, how he became the head of the death center at Treblinka. Sereny is a very able interviewer, and is much better at teasing out the 'inner life' of Stangl, which is missing to an extent with Hoess' testimony in his memoir.



On a level a bit higher up, we have another excellent book Ms. Sereny, Albert Speer and His Battle With Truth. Given Mr. Speer's attempt at creating a persona as the 'Technocratic 'Good' Nazi', Ms. Sereny's work is an excellent corrective to his own memoirs. Ms. Sereny was granted an unprecendented amount of access to Mr. Speer in interviews, and the result is a very critical look at how he found himself getting involved in the NSDAP as a architect and then into the very height of power as Hitler's Economic Minister.



Finally, no list would be complete without looking at Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland. Dr. Browning's work is an excellent look at the 'ground level' of the Final Solution, the shootings and ghetto clearing operations that fed the second phase of Final Solution, the extermination centers of Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen and Sobibor.

All of these works are very readable to the non-historian and are very highly regarded.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:


I see Hitler's earwax. He should have used Godwin swabs.
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William Boykin
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GameCrossing wrote:


I see Hitler's earwax. He should have used Godwin swabs.


I Godwin my own threads all the time. Comes with the territory.

Darilian
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Jorge Montero
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I read Ordinary Men in Dar's recommendation, and I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the psychology of something like this.
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Too depressing for me, Dar, but thanks for the links (and I'm not being sarcastic; one of these days I might be interested in reading).
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William Boykin
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Another excellent book is this one-



Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory, by Deborah Lipstadt. Slater, in the other thread, had asked 'how do deniers think?' This is a good overview of exactly that- Ms. Lipstadt does an excellent job in covering the history of Holocaust Denial, what those who push it claim as their objectives, and how historians and academics have dealt with the challenge denialism presents.





Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things is another good read, though its not exclusively focused on the subject. He does have a very good chapter on Holocaust Denial, and how it compares with Evolution Denial, and discusses its nature as a rhetorical device, rather than a historical or scientific type of argument. Definitely worth a read.

Darilian
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Boaty McBoatface
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LeeDambis wrote:
The book on Speer was great catharsis for my frustration with the all-too-common view of Speer as "the good Nazi." In some ways, Speer's public "rehabilitation" cast doubt on the fundamental fairness of the Nuremberg trials system. While I still feel that Sereny missed the larger point of Speer's guilt through works on behalf of the regime, she at least substantiated another form of guilt by debunking his "looking the other way" defense. He had to have known. He did know. He admitted as much in cryptic but unmistakable fashion. Had he admitted it in 1945, he would have been condemned with the others.

It's a travesty that he died a comfortable old man still highly regarded by the international press, especially given that Fritz Sauckel, the man who provided the slave laborers used by Speer's ministry, was hanged at Nuremberg. Nonetheless, the truth is out there. It's incomplete, it's still being swallowed up by the question of whether Speer stayed for the full Posen Conference and actually heard Himmler's speech about the ongoing Holocaust, but it's out there.


Lets face it, he had no real issues with Nazism before 1944. Like many Germans his "de-nazification" began when it was obvious they would lose the war.

But at least he did do something practical and useful, for that he does deserve some credit, just not as much as he gets.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Deborah Lipstadt won an important libel case when sued by David Irving. The judge's comments on Irving were unflattering to put it mildly.
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Fictional, but "This way to the gas ladies and gentlemen"[url][http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Way_for_the_Gas,_Ladies_...] by Tadeusz Borowski, is a great if disturbing perspective on the camps based on his experiences in Auschitz.

Similarly, Primo Levi's "If this is a man" http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Is_a_Man is a great memoir from the prisoner's point of view.
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Boaty McBoatface
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A thought has struck me.


How many of these books were written by Holocaust Perpetrator's?
 
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Cal Macewan
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slatersteven wrote:
A thought has struck me.


How many of these books were written by Holocaust Perpetrator's?


One - 'Death Dealer' by Rudolf Hoess.

Why does that matter?
 
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A Voice In the Wilderness
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Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing, and Dying, The Secret WWII Transcripts of German POWS


I haven't read it yet, but there's a good chance it belongs on this list.
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David Dixon
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Ordinary Men is absolutely heartbreaking and terrifying. Read it as a cadet some years ago. I'd also recommend Eyewitness Aushwitz, if you can make it through it.

If you're interested in the tl;dr version, it's this--ordinary, normal, well-meaning people can absolutely do terrible things to their fellow men.

Diis
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James King
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Discusses the Zionist/Hitler connection...or how Hilter created Israel.
 
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DrWhoWho wrote:

Discusses the Zionist/Hitler connection...or how Hilter created Israel.


Did you actually read it or is this just something you read about on one of those conspiracy sites?
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TheChin! wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:

Discusses the Zionist/Hitler connection...or how Hilter created Israel.


Did you actually read it or is this just something you read about on one of those conspiracy sites?


Conspiracy?

You don't know about this???

Do you have an actual question?

The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist organizations and Nazi Germany to transfer a number of Jews and their assets to Palestine. This agreement was partly inspired by a global boycott of Germany that had appeared to threaten the Reich.[1] Controversial as it may be seen in hindsight, it marked one of the few rescue of Jews and their assets during the Holocaust.[2]
 
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David Dixon
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DrWhoWho wrote:


Discusses the Zionist/Hitler connection...or how Hilter created Israel.


This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

It would appear to be, based on your previous and thoroughly scurilous post history, designed to stir controversy.

The book highlights an attempt by budding Zionists to save what they could from the absolute horror of Nazism by securing passage to Palestine. Essentially, the Zionists wisely attempted a bloodless ethnic cleansing to prevent the attempted genocide they feared would follow. The Nazi government, nakedly opportunistic and not yet in fully in power during the time of the events in discussion (1933), let some small number--60,000 or so--escape in an attempt to sway world opinion.

Do not misconstrue this small historical footnote into some sort of equvalency or Nazi origin of Israel or exoneration of Nazi Germany from its crimes.

The feared genoicide came to pass, a historical fact which you try to deny in previous threads. This book does not deny it, and neither should you.

Again, as I said earlier, this book has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's original topic for discussion.

I shall participate no further in any thread of which you are a major part, and I am done responding to you--the only reason I'm even posting this at all is to preempt the recriminatory and argumenative threads which will likely come in response to your non sequiter of a post.

Your actions in previous threads have caused you to lose the benefit of whatever doubt I had about your motivation. Whether you truly believe the positions you espouse or are merely trolling, you're failing at life; I genuinely hope you grow out of it.

Diis

Edited for spelling.
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DrWhoWho wrote:

Do you have an actual question?


Did you miss my question mark? I thought I used proper punctuation.

I can read the Amazon synopsis just like the rest of the Internet, thanks. If you don't have a take on the book, because you presumably didn't read it and some other source cherry picked information from it so you thought it was a good book to obfuscate liability for the Holocaust, then don't post it. Or you will be taken to school, like Diis laid on you above.
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David K
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"Ordinary Men" focuses on one particular group of mass murderers. Another book, "Masters Of Death", by Richard Rhodes, is another, more general, study of the Einsatzgruppen.
 
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Edward Sexby
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Dearlove wrote:
Deborah Lipstadt won an important libel case when sued by David Irving. The judge's comments on Irving were unflattering to put it mildly.


Great point. A very important book came out of this trial: "Telling Lies About Hitler", by Richard J Evans. Prof Evans was a key expert witness for Lipstadt, being an authority on nineteenth and twentieth century German history (he was a professor at at Birkbeck at the time). In the book he demolishes Irving's theses in detailed, calm and rational style, just as he did in court. It left in tatters Irving's claim to somehow have a valid factual and historical argument for his denials. Fwiw, if possible, this is for me the way to pull apart any argument, body of thought or ideology that is poisoning our collective well, rather than just trying to shout it down. If you want to know how deniers(and quite a few others) think and construct a worldview, read this.

By the way, has anyone mentioned "The Holocaust", by Martian Gilbert, yet?
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Boaty McBoatface
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Cal Mac wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
A thought has struck me.


How many of these books were written by Holocaust Perpetrator's?


One - 'Death Dealer' by Rudolf Hoess.

Why does that matter?
Sorry, I assumed when dealing with the Holocaust we judge people by the words they choose to use.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DrWhoWho wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:

Discusses the Zionist/Hitler connection...or how Hilter created Israel.


Did you actually read it or is this just something you read about on one of those conspiracy sites?


Conspiracy?

You don't know about this???

Do you have an actual question?

The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist organizations and Nazi Germany to transfer a number of Jews and their assets to Palestine. This agreement was partly inspired by a global boycott of Germany that had appeared to threaten the Reich.[1] Controversial as it may be seen in hindsight, it marked one of the few rescue of Jews and their assets during the Holocaust.[2]
Have you read it?
 
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Чебурашка, ты настоящий друг!
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DrWhoWho wrote:
Conspiracy?

You don't know about this???

Do you have an actual question?

The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist organizations and Nazi Germany to transfer a number of Jews and their assets to Palestine. This agreement was partly inspired by a global boycott of Germany that had appeared to threaten the Reich.[1] Controversial as it may be seen in hindsight, it marked one of the few rescue of Jews and their assets during the Holocaust.[2]


Just to add to Diis’s excellent post (and like him, this is the last reply I will make to you), your intervention here is an exact replica of your original Holocaust minimisation thread. You refer to a historical fact that many lay people don’t know about, yet is well-known among those who’ve read up on the subject. You don’t actually make an argument by saying what you intend to prove by mentioning this; you just insinuate that because your non-specialist interlocutor does not know about this one particular fact, the entire picture of the Holocaust and the Nazis as established by decades of serious research is incorrect.

You did this repeatedly with regard to the Auschwitz thread. The fact that Auschwitz was a death camp attached to a concentration camp is well-known. However, for many lay people, the differences between the two can be unclear. In your thread, you pointed to the existence of the apparatus of a concentration camp at Auschwitz, hoping that many peoples’ uncertainty about the distinction between a death and a concentration camp would cast doubt upon the existence of the former at Auschwitz. Of course your argument is absurd when one already knows that Auschwitz was both types of camp.

Throughout that thread you judiciously avoided stating what you thought did happen during the Holocaust, limiting yourself to innuendo to cast doubt upon the main features of it. This, too, was calculated: by avoiding saying what you thought had happened, you sought to forestall being challenged on your own (incorrect) version of events. The entire tactic was to make the other posters play your game of discussing minutiae, so that they would miss the wood for the trees, and lose sight of the undeniable fact that the Holocaust was a calculated crime committed by all levels of Nazi German state and society with the express goal of murdering an entire people.

To me, you seem too immersed in the world of Holocaust denial and minimisation to be simply a troll looking for kicks. Your history of posting reveals a very hateful character, whether towards Christianity or Judaism. You have my pity.
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Diis wrote:


This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

.



yes it does

this is from the same author of IBM and the Holocaust

his own mother disowned him after the book was released

the author is also jewish

Required Reading.
 
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