GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
9,706 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
16 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
41 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: This thread is NOT about.... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Rape.

It's about women lying. About a destructive media that fawns over the malicious perception that all men are brutes and all women poor defenseless victims, innocent of ill intent and only trying to make their way bravely in a patriarchal culture where every man just wants to plunge something into their orifices.

Cosby is going to court. The person suing him is making a claim about events almost 40 years ago. I think she's lying.

Lena Dunham, the totally creepy darling of the rape-centric progressive left has been exposed. Her bestselling book, which described her rape failed to acknowledge that it didn't happen. Nobody, especially the publisher and editors, bothered to check a story she spun. Which si a damned sight easier to check that some angry woman carrying on about 1977 Playboy Mansion stuff. Did they even allow 15 year old children into the Playboy Mansion?

Now we find out that another left-leaning source, the "shame on you" journalism of Rolling Stone has also lied to us. About the supposed gang-rape of an anonymous student at a University of Virginia Greek house. Nobody checked. They just ran the story a few weeks ago and the results caused turmoil, and tons of money. University presidents and deans were condemning the gang-rape culture and activities were suspended, lawyer were hired, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, huge protests in from of the targeted house, hate-speech on a 24/7 cycle, people driving from all over the country to shame-shame-shame yet another male club that (according to the story) found pleasure in jamming inanimate objects into female orifices. Like the (now false) broomstick that the Duke Lacrosse players gleefully jammed up the exotic dancer's butt.

But nobody at the Rolling Stone actually bothered to check the story. It's false. Everyone is running for cover. Well, one principle player in the protests said it doesn't really matter if the rape happened or not because rape does happen and male violence against women has to stop. So what's she's saying is that men are so bad that even if they didn't rape someone they could have. And that "fact" makes everything else, lies, fabrications, ruined lives, educations interfered with, all of it is fine because she hates men.

Back in maybe 2007-2009 era there were a number of "rape threads" here. What I said then is even more relevant now - when everyone claims they're being raped then nobody is being raped. Not because some women aren't victims, but because when every woman is relegated to victim status the true victims are lost among the sea of pretenders. Rape, as a crime and as an event that creates a visceral and horrific reaction becomes deadened and routine the more it's falsely claimed and the more the lines between bad choices and actual crimes are blurred.

People stop caring if they don't feel they are getting the truth.

Lena Dunham is clearly a total piece of shit. I mean it. As a human being. I know zero about her except that she is some sort of TV wunderkind and brazenly outspoken against all things "conservative". So the Left love-love-loves her. But she's a lying and despicable person. She used the real victims, the real rape sufferers as a tool to get sympathy and credibility for herself. To pretend she also had trauma that helped form her heroic and meaningful acts of defiance to the dominating culture and to get admiration from her admirers.

She should be the one who is shamed. And the anonymous rape victim the Rolling Stone temporarily believed. My opinion? The frat boys at UV need to lawyer up and sue the living shit out of the Rolling Stone. Same goes for anyone or any group who may ultimately pay the price for Dunham's lies.




3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
shake

If you wanted to talk about a specific event, I'd have no problem with that. If you want to talk about a specific example of the media rushing to judgment on this topic, I'd have no problem with that.

But instead, you want to talk about a narrative where:

Quote:
It's about women lying. About a destructive media that fawns over the malicious perception that all men are brutes and all women poor defenseless victims, innocent of ill intent and only trying to make their way bravely in a patriarchal culture where every man just wants to plunge something into their orifices.


Well, that's only the second-place troll of the week. Pass. Enjoy your thread.

18 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Frazier
United States
West Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
A man learns little by little in battle. Take this battle experience and become a man who can’t be beaten
badge
This flag says we will fight until only our bones are left.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In a country of hundreds of millions of citizens, it's terrible that a few lives were damaged by false rape accusations.

It's still much, much more terrible that so many lives are damaged every day by actual rape. Dealing with false rape claims is the price you pay for turning the tide of silence and shame on actual rape claims, and it's a price we have to pay as a society to get things right.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
rylfrazier wrote:
In a country of hundreds of millions of citizens, it's terrible that a few lives were damaged by false rape accusations.

It's still much, much more terrible that so many lives are damaged every day by actual rape. Dealing with false rape claims is the price you pay for turning the tide of silence and shame on actual rape claims, and it's a price we have to pay as a society to get things right.


Here, let me fix that for you:


Quote:
In a country of hundreds of millions of citizens, it's terrible that a few lives were damaged by inappropriate police shootings.

It's still much, much more terrible that so many lives are damaged every day by actual crime. Dealing with wrongful death shootings by police is the price you pay for turning the tide of silence and shame on actual violent crime claims, and it's a price we have to pay as a society to get things right.


Sound about right? Because what you're basically saying is that some guys just have to pay the price for some other guys committing crimes.

I won't even respond directly to Sue because her take on the subject is that anything she doesn't like in RSP is always trolling. That's the new norm for denial here - Don't like what you read? It's a troll! Have no answer to what is being posted? Clearly it's a troll! Ideology threatened by pesky facts? Time to call someone a troll!

Convince me that falsely accusing and punishing people for crimes they didn't commit is somehow a net positive for the actual victims of crimes committed by others.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A lie is something you can prove is untrue, not one that may be untrue.

As far as I can tell Dunham also does not say that Barry is not a pseudonym, so it is an assumption that is the rapists real name. Moreover it's clear that it's not the Barry they found (the evidence she is lying, the fact her description does not match the man they claim it was).

It all hinges on one thing, his name, and the name of a radio show that may not have even been professional (and which also may be pseudonynomic.

Sure it raises question's but it is not proof she made it up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You have some serious issues if you think that the women who share their rape stories are the ones to blame. For some reason, Tripp, every time violence against women comes up in this forum, you twist the issue into a straw man argument about how "the liberals think all men are rapists," rather than actually trying to think even for a moment what it's like to be someone else. In fact, your total inability to empathize with other people, or to imagine yourself in their shoes, pretty much defines every single stupid thing you say on RSP.

If you even took the time to read Lena Dunham's story, you would know how conflicted and torn even she was about what had happened to her. It was not an accusation against a particular man, or in any way a condemnation of all men, but was an exploration of how she had even blinded herself to the fact that she had been assaulted. That was the point.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
You have some serious issues if you think that the women who share their rape stories are the ones to blame. For some reason, Tripp, every time violence against women comes up in this forum, you twist the issue into a straw man argument about how "the liberals think all men are rapists," rather than actually trying to think even for a moment what it's like to be someone else. In fact, your total inability to empathize with other people, or to imagine yourself in their shoes, pretty much defines every single stupid thing you say on RSP.

If you even took the time to read Lena Dunham's story, you would know how conflicted and torn even she was about what had happened to her. It was not an accusation against a particular man, or in any way a condemnation of all men, but was an exploration of how she had even blinded herself to the fact that she had been assaulted. That was the point.


And you don't know fuck all about me. So go fuck yourself. You've quickly become just another in the mass of RSP morons who absolutely refuse to discuss RSP subjects and instead attack the people who bring the subjects up.

Fuck off, Troll. Either address how false claims of rape help rape victims or admit you're too in thrall to Dunham and her "story" to even consider how such claims may actually harm real victims. Or how the Rolling Stone, by repeating unproven accusations has forwarded the cause.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Frazier
United States
West Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
A man learns little by little in battle. Take this battle experience and become a man who can’t be beaten
badge
This flag says we will fight until only our bones are left.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
In a country of hundreds of millions of citizens, it's terrible that a few lives were damaged by false rape accusations.

It's still much, much more terrible that so many lives are damaged every day by actual rape. Dealing with false rape claims is the price you pay for turning the tide of silence and shame on actual rape claims, and it's a price we have to pay as a society to get things right.


Here, let me fix that for you:


Quote:
In a country of hundreds of millions of citizens, it's terrible that a few lives were damaged by inappropriate police shootings.

It's still much, much more terrible that so many lives are damaged every day by actual crime. Dealing with wrongful death shootings by police is the price you pay for turning the tide of silence and shame on actual violent crime claims, and it's a price we have to pay as a society to get things right.


Sound about right? Because what you're basically saying is that some guys just have to pay the price for some other guys committing crimes.

I won't even respond directly to Sue because her take on the subject is that anything she doesn't like in RSP is always trolling. That's the new norm for denial here - Don't like what you read? It's a troll! Have no answer to what is being posted? Clearly it's a troll! Ideology threatened by pesky facts? Time to call someone a troll!

Convince me that falsely accusing and punishing people for crimes they didn't commit is somehow a net positive for the actual victims of crimes committed by others.


Yes, the price we pay for having police is having to deal with it when the police get it wrong or are evil. It's worth paying the price and having police, but we should do better about dealing with them when they get it wrong.

I feel like we're dealing with false rape accusations pretty well - the Rolling Stone story was debunked pretty quickly. Yes, Rolling Stone clearly made a mistake and should be and will be punished in some manner for that mistake. The system is working, unlike the system where cops kill people and there appears to be very little or no accountability due to a prosecutorial blue wall of failure to prosecute.

What I'm objecting to is your "LIBERALS BAD! LIBERALS SAY REPORT RAPE NOW SOCIETY TERRIBLE" conservative fuckwit nonsense. Yeah, when women who actually get raped feel more free to report it, some lies about rape come up too. That's a problem, and we're dealing with it. That doesn't mean that there's a false rape reporting epidemic and that rape reporting needs to stop.

I'm not calling for an abolishment of rape reporting because a few people made false reports any more than I am calling for an abolishment of police because a few police are bad people and commit crimes.

As far as the trolling thing goes - you're the one who claims to be trolling whenever people make your dumb positions look sufficiently dumb. If you're going to use "oh I'm not actually an idiot, I was just playing" card as often as you do, you should probably expect that sometimes when you say something stupid, like you just did, people will just say "listen, you're being stupid again, so I'm just going to cut to the chase and say 'I guess you must be 'trolling'' rather than waiting for you to be made to look stupid, then claim to have been trolling yourself.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
Either address how false claims of rape help rape victims or admit you're too in thrall to Dunham and her "story" to even consider how such claims may actually harm real victims. Or how the Rolling Stone, by repeating unproven accusations has forwarded the cause.


Dunham accused nobody: Breitbart was the one that tried to "expose" her story and find the man in order to turn her personal memoir into a real rape accusation. It's not even clear if she used a pseudonym.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
DWTripp wrote:

I won't even respond directly to Sue because her take on the subject is that anything she doesn't like in RSP is always trolling.


DWTripp wrote:

This thread is NOT about...Rape.




Pro tip. Be less obvious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Either address how false claims of rape help rape victims or admit you're too in thrall to Dunham and her "story" to even consider how such claims may actually harm real victims. Or how the Rolling Stone, by repeating unproven accusations has forwarded the cause.


Dunham accused nobody: Breitbart was the one that tried to "expose" her story and find the man in order to turn her personal memoir into a real rape accusation. It's not even clear if she used a pseudonym.


Thanks.

She did essentially accuse someone. And I don't care who investigated it or why. That ought not be a consideration. Especially if it turns out (as it seems to headed that way) she created the allegation to add weight, credibility and impact to her tale. People lie about themselves all the time in memoirs. I totally get that. But this is a topic that is, unfortunately, ideologically aligned.

Conservatives like me totally understand that some women are rape victims and, like hopefully all liberals, we want harsh punishments for the criminals. But because the left in America has adopted this particular crime as their own and made it political rather than human, they need narratives to keep it energized - along ideological lines, not human ones.

That's how I see it. And that's been the trend over the last 20-30 years. A gradual redefinition of what is and what isn't criminal and (sadly) somewhat of a glorification of the victims that allow themselves to be publicly known. Add those two together - admiration for the courageous victims and an increasingly lowering bar as to what really is and isn't criminal and you get what I believe we have - a society obsessed with rape and ready to spring into action -- without thinking -- and pillory anyone unfortunate enough to be accused of rape in a setting that involves celebrity or privilege.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:




Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Exactly.

*Note to Sue*

This is what the thread is about. You're so mesmerized by your own beliefs/biases that you totally failed to get that. It really is okay to talk about how lying and fabrication created to lend credibility or get sympathy actually damages people's lives. And ultimately harms the real victims. You won't have to turn in your Progressive Sheeple membership card if you just, you know, discuss it.
 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
Avatar
I try to avoid rape threads generally. That includes threads about false rape accusations. I think I've made that fairly clear. So stick it, Tripp.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:

My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.


Well I can see that you share Tripp's incredibly sophisticated rhetorical strategies. If you tell me to "fuck off" a few more times, you might just persuade me that you're right.

Tripp is claiming (and you agreed with him) that today there is an ideological reason to accuse men of rape and depict men as rapists:

Quote:
because when every woman is relegated to victim status the true victims are lost among the sea of pretenders.

Quote:
But because the left in America has adopted this particular crime as their own and made it political rather than human, they need narratives to keep it energized - along ideological lines, not human ones.


The problem with this argument is that it places more of a burden of proof on the woman. It encourages people to assume that women frequently lie about being raped along ideological lines, because they "want to play the victim."

Considering how difficult it is for a woman to come forward about sexual assault in the first place, how much easier will it be if she has a mob of people telling her she's a "lying liberal" who is making false accusations to push a political agenda?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?


My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.
Also if you are going to accuse a woman of lying you need to back it up with evidence, like looking at anyone who hosted a radio show, and seeing if the matched the description, and ignorance what may have been deliberately false names.

Both you and the OP are doing the very thing you are attacking, buying a media story without looking at how logical it is.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?


My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.
Also if you are going to accuse a woman of lying you need to back it up with evidence, like looking at anyone who hosted a radio show, and seeing if the matched the description, and ignorance what may have been deliberately false names.

Both you and the OP are doing the very thing you are attacking, buying a media story without looking at how logical it is.



The media piece DID an investigation and found absolutely no results. If you'd like to challenge it, then provide some evidence. That is the only evidence we have and it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

You people are nuts.
No they looked at two elements of the story (names, which in most cases like this are altered). And found (what an surprise) they were not real names. That just proves she altered the names, not that the story is false.

I cannot investigate, I could not get the records I would need (I lack the resources) but any reputable news organization could.


Was there a radio show hosted by a male student?

Was he a member of the Republicans at the campus?

Did he have a mustache?

Ignore the names, they are going to be made up, and look at the actual facts.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
she2 wrote:
I try to avoid rape threads generally. That includes threads about false rape accusations. I think I've made that fairly clear. So stick it, Tripp.


Stick it yourself Sue. Show me where my OP even mentioned you, suggested this thread was about something you tend to avoid in order to drag you out, or in anyway shape or form suggested I wanted you here.

Do that and I'll video myself listening to Deiterle's disgusting Pogue's Christmas song while drinking cheap Irish whiskey and I'll put it on YouTube.

You're the one who got involved, and you're the one trying to make the thread about me rather the the subject.
3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?


My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.
Also if you are going to accuse a woman of lying you need to back it up with evidence, like looking at anyone who hosted a radio show, and seeing if the matched the description, and ignorance what may have been deliberately false names.

Both you and the OP are doing the very thing you are attacking, buying a media story without looking at how logical it is.



The media piece DID an investigation and found absolutely no results. If you'd like to challenge it, then provide some evidence. That is the only evidence we have and it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

You people are nuts.
No they looked at two elements of the story (names, which in most cases like this are altered). And found (what an surprise) they were not real names. That just proves she altered that names, not that the story is false.



How about you go read the article and then try to dislodge your head from your ass. mkay bai.
I have, and it hinges on the name Barry, and the name of the radio show, even the source admits all this is an assumption these facts are accurate.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?


My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.
Also if you are going to accuse a woman of lying you need to back it up with evidence, like looking at anyone who hosted a radio show, and seeing if the matched the description, and ignorance what may have been deliberately false names.

Both you and the OP are doing the very thing you are attacking, buying a media story without looking at how logical it is.



The media piece DID an investigation and found absolutely no results. If you'd like to challenge it, then provide some evidence. That is the only evidence we have and it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

You people are nuts.
No they looked at two elements of the story (names, which in most cases like this are altered). And found (what an surprise) they were not real names. That just proves she altered the names, not that the story is false.

I cannot investigate, I could not get the records I would need (I lack the resources) but any reputable news organization could.


Was there a radio show hosted by a male student?

Was he a member of the Republicans at the campus?

Did he have a mustache?

Ignore the names, they are going to be made up, and look at the actual facts.



Seriously, every single one of those things is addressed. Go read the article. Until you actually do, you're talking directly from your ass.
So where do they describe looking at any radio show hosted by a male student, rather than just looking for the one show?

In fact the investigation was not allowed to look at the records of Campus radio, so how did they establish there was no such show, let alone looking at any show hosted by a male?

Also why did not they not look for a republican called Jimbo (or Jim, or James) (the name of the show for Christ sake)? I mean how hard is it really to pick out little snippets like that, for an investigative journalist?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
So where do they describe looking at any radio show hosted by a male student, rather than just looking for the one show?

In fact the investigation was not allowed to look at the records of Campus radio, so how did they establish there was no such show, let alone looking at any show hosted by a male?

Also why did not they not look for a republican called Jimbo (or Jim, or James) (the name of the show for Christ sake)? I mean how hard is it really to pick out little snippets like that, for an investigative journalist?


Not only that, but it was a personal memoir. People change things all the time in memoirs: names, dates, sequences of events. And yes, people also make things up. Dunham's story may or may not have happened with a guy who may or may not have been at Oberlin and whose name may or may not have been "Barry." We'll probably never know.

The most disgusting thing about all of this is that Breitbart wanted to turn her story into a hard fact, not in order to bring a potential rapist to justice, but to call out Dunham for falsely accusing a man of rape when she never did such a thing in the first place. THEY made the accusation. THEY put a face to the name.

And it was all in the name of spinning a narrative about how liberal women "cry rape."
3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Lies, Damn Lies and Memories/Memoirs... especially those that draw national attention.

I concur that lying is bad overall and oh what a tangled web we weave... etc. However when it comes to telling personal tales embellishment tends to be something writers do. In their personal lives and even in professional contexts. Remember the Joseph J. Ellis scandal a few years back? Hummm... probably you don't because a noted historian lying for decades (And we are talking some real Whoppers here) about his own life, in class and in interviews, well that isn't going to rise up to the level of feeding frenzy the stories you list are. But here is a link pointing out how little it really cost him in the end.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/8656

As for Rolling Stone... well fact checking is hardly something they are noted for. The whole "Anti-Vaccine" movement really gained a lot of credibility because of its huge write up, asserting a lot of things as facts that were not in any way proven, which it years later had to retract.

People lie. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes they have lied so well to themselves they no longer remember actual truth accurately. Some people lie more than others.

Some lies are lies of substance and some lies are merely lies of varnish.

The destructive media fawns over anything that is sensational and salacious enough to make good copy... and usually these days could care less about the "truth" if trying to validate facts keeps them from being the people breaking the latest "feeding frenzy" type of story. Because ratings in the now matter a lot more then accuracy or even veracity the bulk of the time.

All of these points would make for a discussion of substance ... so why focus on just potential dishonestly by women on this narrowly defined range topic? Because doing so really does make the focus not about lying or the damage lying can cause. Whatever your genuine intent for the OP was.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Meerkat wrote:

Lies, Damn Lies and Memories/Memoirs... especially those that draw national attention.

I concur that lying is bad overall and oh what a tangled web we weave... etc. However when it comes to telling personal tales embellishment tends to be something writers do. In their personal lives and even in professional contexts. Remember the Joseph J. Ellis scandal a few years back? Hummm... probably you don't because a noted historian lying for decades (And we are talking some real Whoppers here) about his own life, in class and in interviews, well that isn't going to rise up to the level of feeding frenzy the stories you list are. But here is a link pointing out how little it really cost him in the end.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/8656

As for Rolling Stone... well fact checking is hardly something they are noted for. The whole "Anti-Vaccine" movement really gained a lot of credibility because of its huge write up, asserting a lot of things as facts that were not in any way proven, which it years later had to retract.

People lie. Sometimes intentionally, sometimes they have lied so well to themselves they no longer remember actual truth accurately. Some people lie more than others.

Some lies are lies of substance and some lies are merely lies of varnish.

The destructive media fawns over anything that is sensational and salacious enough to make good copy... and usually these days could care less about the "truth" if trying to validate facts keeps them from being the people breaking the latest "feeding frenzy" type of story. Because ratings in the now matter a lot more then accuracy or even veracity the bulk of the time.

All of these points would make for a discussion of substance ... so why focus on just potential dishonestly by women on this narrowly defined range topic? Because doing so really does make the focus not about lying or the damage lying can cause. Whatever your genuine intent for the OP was.



Really? That's your take? Real people who didn't commit crimes are actually affected by these lies. The UV case, like the Duke case isn't some nebulous fantasy involving some shimmery distant "man". Both cases are direct accusations of people and institutions and they energized mobs. How is that even a little helpful to actual victims?

The men and schools in the two cases above were traumatized and lost huge sums and respect. Police chiefs were fired. Lawyers arrived with their talons out and their beaks lapping up the dollars and angst from the idiots waving placards, chanting and demanding that "something be done to stop this man-on-woman violence".

Dunham isn't some hack historian lost in academia. She is an OPINION LEADER of the Liberal/Progressive left movement in this nation. She has a moral obligation to not lie, not fabricate, not pretend and to be honest. This is the sort of thing mentioned in the Outliers book, the PDI chart... where the more in awe people are of "authority" the less inclined they are to challenge what authorities say.

That kind of cultural norm costs lives. People die because of the "aura" of authority. And Dunham, in my view, loads this crap into her book for the expressed reason to lend even more authority to her ideology and her position as a leader. "Believe me girls, I too was raped."

Nobody has yet indicated how false or questionable charges of rape against nebulous "men" or "gangs of men", that are later revealed to be conjured, in any way helps the real victims of rape.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Boykin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
For BJ.....
Avatar
mb
One story in one magazine by a reporter who, anxious to keep her source happy, didn't do the proper diligence required of her doesn't mean that most women who report being raped are 'liars'. UVA was under Title IX investigation for the number of rapes reported there before the Rolling Stone article- one bad job of reporting doesn't erase the fact that UVA has a serious problem.

If anything, Tripp's faux outrage proves the more general point of why so many women don't report rape. They don't want to be put under the microscope from people out to prove that they're not 'really' victims at all- they're just 'sluts' who really wanted sex, they're calling it rape when its really just regret, and yes, they're just 'liars' out to get money/revenge.

Darilian



7 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
cbazler wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
Yeah, false accusations hurt real victims and the falsely accused. People that make them are shitbags.


Sure. But rape hurts far, far more people, and arguments like yours make it much harder for women to come forward.

My best friend in high school was raped by a boy who lived on her block, and I can tell you with with certainty that it can sometimes be far easier for a woman to stay silent about her rape than come forward with an accusation.

Rape is humiliating, traumatizing, and requires an incredibly invasive personal and physical investigation if legal action is to be made: vaginal swabs, deeply personal testimony regarding intimate body parts and sexual details.

Then there is the issue of evidence: even with a rape kit, there is usually little evidence of consent vs. non-consent other than personal testimony. So, if it's he-said vs. she-said, a woman who has been raped will also be faced with accusations of lying on top of all of the hell she has already gone through. This can make the experience even more difficult, and painful.

Then there is the fear of retribution. My friend was terrified of what her attacker, who knew her and knew where she lived, would do if she spoke out against him.

So, if it's "he-said vs. she-said," which is more likely to have happened? A woman who willingly puts herself through humiliating personal interrogation, invasive medical examinations, and often frightening public scrutiny in order to "falsely accuse" a man of rape? Or a man who, acting out of lust or anger, quickly took advantage of a woman when no one else was around?


My argument makes it harder for women to report rape? What the fuck? If you're going to make that accusation, it'd be appropriate to back it up with some evidence or, like, a single fucking reason.

What does any of that bullshit have to do with what I said?

Fuck off, and keep your rape stories for times they're actually applicable. I have people in my life that have been victim as well. It doesn't make my point any stronger, nor does yours.
Also if you are going to accuse a woman of lying you need to back it up with evidence, like looking at anyone who hosted a radio show, and seeing if the matched the description, and ignorance what may have been deliberately false names.

Both you and the OP are doing the very thing you are attacking, buying a media story without looking at how logical it is.



The media piece DID an investigation and found absolutely no results. If you'd like to challenge it, then provide some evidence. That is the only evidence we have and it does exactly what you claim it doesn't.

You people are nuts.
No they looked at two elements of the story (names, which in most cases like this are altered). And found (what an surprise) they were not real names. That just proves she altered that names, not that the story is false.



How about you go read the article and then try to dislodge your head from your ass. mkay bai.
I have, and it hinges on the name Barry, and the name of the radio show, even the source admits all this is an assumption these facts are accurate.



Well, if you can't read I guess I'm at a loss of how to proceed.
Quote:
She did not do so in this instance, leaving the reader to assume that Barry is her alleged rapist's real name.


So yes the idea that his name is Barry is an assumption, the say it.

Did they ask any former students about any Republican radio shows?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.