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Fire in the Lake» Forums » General

Subject: Game length rss

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B Hanly
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Complete noob to coin.

Haven't even read the play book and flicked thru the rules but am very interested in the game.

So how long would a game take vs three bots for the different length games.

Yes it might be a "how long is a piece of string" question but I need to know how much time would need to be invested for a game before purchase.

Thanks BGGers.
 
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Roger Reisinger
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3 hours for short,
5 hours med,
7 hours long
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B Hanly
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7 hrs for the long?

I can assume as familiarity builds that the time would be reduced by about an hour or two?
 
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P. Fowler
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Depending on how quick you can interpret the flowcharts? I'd say short could be 2-3 hours, Long Period could take you to about 7 or 8.

Or you could use VASSAL and save your games so you can pick up where you left off later (and if your wife complains about taking up the whole table! )
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P. Fowler
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rougebladez wrote:
7 hrs for the long?

I can assume as familiarity builds that the time would be reduced by about an hour or two?

Possibly cut it down to 6 once things click (5 if your name is Oerjan.) But any shorter and you might as well use one of the shorter scenarios.
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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4 hours for the long scenario, if you're me.

'Course, if I hadn't been able to keep the bots from winning early it would take even less time

/Oerjan
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B Hanly
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Wife complaining is a VERY viable assumption.

Are the flow charts on Vasal?
 
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Brian Sinclair
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As Fire In the Lake was my first COIN game and I have taught it about 5 times with people new to COIN, I would not recommend you learn the game through the bots. If going solo play all the factions yourself. The rules themselves are not overly complex, however there are so many layers to the interactions between the factions that it is not an easy game to learn. That being said once you do learn the game it is very rewarding. I can tell you that almost all of my plays have been with 4 players. First time played was 4 hours to the 2nd Coup card. 2nd play was better but it wasn't until about play 4 or 5 where we were able to play in about 3 to 3.5 hours. All of these were the "Short" scenario.

I have found the easiest way for people to play their first game is to explain everything on the board, the units and victory conditions required for each faction. I then give them the player aid and explain that everything they need to know is there. I tell them not to worry how to do everything as the aid walks you through each action. I try to get them to focus on what they want to do then look at the aid to show them how it is done.

Sorry for being so long winded. I hope this helps. Good luck and enjoy the game.

Brian
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Brad Swinson
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I agree, I tried to play against the bots the first time but it was more educational for me to learn how they interacted by playing all 4 factions solo. I could see my mistakes more clearly when I made them. The next time I used the Bots with a mix of solo, before going full solo.
 
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B Hanly
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I'd love to get it but it sounds veeeery time heavy.

I don't think I'd get it out very often if it's that time heavy, but it seems very rewarding and the subject really grabs me.

Now to find somewhere in Ireland that sells it.
 
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P. Fowler
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rougebladez wrote:
Wife complaining is a VERY viable assumption.

Are the flow charts on Vasal?

No. The only thing you can't get online are the non-player flowcharts. You'd have to actually buy the game for those. (Unless you acquired them through less...legal means. But I don't suggest that, mostly because I like Volko. )
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B Hanly
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Seeing as other full games were on Vasal I thought that the bots might be too but alas no. I have absolutely no problem with that (and if I did it wouldn't matter)

Still I might have to pick this up although it's nigh on impossible to locate a copy in Ireland.

Might see if it can be located by a relative visiting Canada.
 
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Jason Sherlock
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rougebladez wrote:
Seeing as other full games were on Vasal I thought that the bots might be too but alas no. I have absolutely no problem with that (and if I did it wouldn't matter)

Still I might have to pick this up although it's nigh on impossible to locate a copy in Ireland.

Might see if it can be located by a relative visiting Canada.


The bots in the other games are not in the vassal mods.

However, with a scanner and a limited knowledge of how Vassal works, it is easy to add them; that is what I did with Andean Abyss and will be doing with this one.
 
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Daniel Blumentritt
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If your long game never has an auto victory it can easily go 8-10 if you aren't experienced yet.
 
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B Hanly
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Got the game from Canada the weekend and played the intro last night.

My god. I reckon it took me nearly 4 hrs just for the play through.
It seemed like it was very heavy going with all four factions and their different little bits to remember. (Even though it was all written in front of me)

Would it be easier to just concentrate on one faction and let the bots do their work until I get to know the game better and then change to a different faction to learn that?

Or keep up with several short scenarios until the game eventually clicks?
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Matt D
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rougebladez wrote:
Would it be easier to just concentrate on one faction and let the bots do their work until I get to know the game better and then change to a different faction to learn that?

Or keep up with several short scenarios until the game eventually clicks?


I found it easiest to learn the game by playing solitaire without using the bots. The bots have a learning curve of their own that's best tackled after you have a solid grasp of each faction's operations and special activities.
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P. Fowler
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rougebladez wrote:
Would it be easier to just concentrate on one faction and let the bots do their work until I get to know the game better and then change to a different faction to learn that?

Or keep up with several short scenarios until the game eventually clicks?

Matt has a good point in that you might want to try to play all the factions at once. Sometimes it helps to be able to understand it. If you'd rather concentrate on one at a time, you can play through VASSAL with someone that knows how to play well. That way they can explain what each faction can do and why.
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Gabriel Conroy
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My suggestion to speed things up for the first playthrough is to almost always have one faction play the event. That cuts the number of choices roughly in half and you get to see how things interact.
 
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