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Subject: Looking for Heavy, Meaty Games rss

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Jon Weber
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What is the heaviest, meatiest, and thinky game you have played and why. I'm trying to get ideas for future collection additions.
 
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Antiquity, Vinhos, Robinson Crusoe: Adventures on the Cursed Island

Antiquity and Robinson Crusoe, especially, give you an end-point, and you have to figure out how to get there among many options, and the variety in the setups mean the approach changes each time.
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Beyer
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Do you know what gamers refer to when they talk about the 18xx genre?
You should take a look.

Take a look at 1830; Railroads and Robber Barons or 1889.
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David Debien
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All good recommendations so far. While it is not quite as heavy as some mentioned before, you should really try Brass: Lancashire. Probably the highest rated heavy Euro.
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Mindy Basi
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Madiera is considered pretty heavy, I think.

I have seen the rules to Pret a Porter, and frankly, I think it's pretty heavy, too. We couldn't get it to the table.

I was just looking at Opera, and that is considered fairly heavy and complex as well.
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Chris
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Kwill2 wrote:
Madiera is considered pretty heavy, I think.
Yep, fiiiinally trying to play my copy I bought 6 months ago this evening. Not felt it was right to try to just bring it along to a group and launch at people without prior warning.

also... Brass. lots of Brass. Madeira is certainly FAR more complicated mechnically, but the depth of Brass is very impressive for the simplish mechanisms it uses.
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Kent
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You should definitely check out the Heavy Cardboard Guild forums and their podcast for meaty game recommendations with detailed rationale.
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Lane Taylor
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Civilization (Advanced Civ). 8 hours play time is sorta a minimum.

The nice thing about it is that it starts off simple, and eases you into the more complex rules as you build up your civilizations.
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Jon Weber
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icarusmustburn wrote:
You should definitely check out the Heavy Cardboard Guild forums and their podcast for meaty game recommendations with detailed rationale.


I should have guessed this existed. Thanks for recommending!

Great recommendations all. I was waffling on Brass but may give it a second look. Madiera is definitely on the short list. Pret a Porter is now on my list to look into, I've only heard a few things.

18xx would totally be on my list but my wife is my primary game partner and I don't think she would dig 18xx. So I'm concerned about plays.
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We love Brass. Some people play on the 2p board, or cover up part of the board. We just alter the card count, and leave the board be.
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Y P
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indigopotter wrote:
We love Brass. Some people play on the 2p board, or cover up part of the board. We just alter the card count, and leave the board be.


Is the 2p board a custom board? Game page says Brass is for 3-4p.
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Brian Jurney
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Trajan is always one that hurts my brain when Im done, but its weak compared to some of the other suggestions here.

Although I havent played it, High Frontier is pretty meaty and quite possibly the heaviest game I can think of, although it might be rivaled by the 18xx games.
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David Debien
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jurney85 wrote:
Trajan is always one that hurts my brain when Im done, but its weak compared to some of the other suggestions here.

Although I havent played it, High Frontier is pretty meaty and quite possibly the heaviest game I can think of, although it might be rivaled by the 18xx games.


All the heaviness in High Frontier basic game revolves around fuel costs and entering and leaving grav wells. Take that out and it is an almost ticket to ride wieght level pick up and deliver game.

That said, I do love me some High Frontier and I am not trivializing the heaviness that the fuel costs and gravity conquering burns you have to compute bring to the experience. I am merely pointing out that there isnt any heaviness besides this, so its not a heavy economic or route building game. Now, once you add Colonization expansion to the mix, then yes, the game is super heavy everywhere you turn.
 
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Craig C
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jurney85 wrote:
Although I havent played it, High Frontier is pretty meaty and quite possibly the heaviest game I can think of, although it might be rivaled by the 18xx games.


Big fan of High Frontier, and it is very meaty, but if you successfully plan and pull off a mission to a distant planet, or cobble together a rocket to rescue a stranded crew, it's very satisfying.
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Nathaniel Chambers
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webs05 wrote:
icarusmustburn wrote:
You should definitely check out the Heavy Cardboard Guild forums and their podcast for meaty game recommendations with detailed rationale.


I should have guessed this existed. Thanks for recommending!

Great recommendations all. I was waffling on Brass but may give it a second look. Madiera is definitely on the short list. Pret a Porter is now on my list to look into, I've only heard a few things.

18xx would totally be on my list but my wife is my primary game partner and I don't think she would dig 18xx. So I'm concerned about plays.


Dungeon Lords is a great brain burner. Dungeon Petz is lighter. Both are 2-3 hr games. Mage Knight is amazing and works best 2-3 player imho, especially with the expansion which makes the game a better coop. These games all make me feel like I'm doing mental gymnastics. I love it.

Tash Kalar is a lighter game, but requires a lot of thinking if you want to do well. More of an abstract than a euro though, but easily the best abstract game I've ever played.

 
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Matt Brown
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bubblepipemedia wrote:
Mage Knight is amazing and works best 2-3 player imho,


I would say 1-2 considering it was voted the favorite game of soloists. Three players is just going to take too long.

Also, wargamers are having a chuckle in regards to what people heavy consider heavy.

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Anton Tolman
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I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned Caylus. It is usually described as one of the "heavier" games. I also really love Archon: Glory & Machination -- I'm not sure how others think of it and there is a funky problem with colors that is fairly easy to overcome, but it has a lot going on and plenty of strategy to keep you busy. Power Grid also comes to mind.
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C. Rexford
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I hear that Kanban: Driver's Edition is pretty heavy, though maybe slightly lighter than it's older brother Vinhos, (both designed by the same man).

I have not played it yet, so this is just based on what I have been hearing and reading about Kanban so far...my copy has yet to arrive.


EDIT: I want to add Ground Floor, it is not the heaviest...in fact it is more medium heavy...but it feels heavier, and if building an economic engine is your idea of fun, and you don't mind little to no player interaction, than I recommend it. Troyes is another medium-heavy game that feels bigger than it is, but I really enjoy.






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Goldfinger
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+1 Caylus

Dominant Species followed by Caylus and Bora Bora
 
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Morten K
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Assuming you mean heavy deep Euros (as all the ones above have) and not e.g. wargames then two publishers stand out for their quality and depth. To me at least.

Splotter Spellen
What's Your Game?

All the games by them that I have played have lived up to your criteria. Dominant Species is also a great game and if you're not afraid of moving into the wargames then some of the GMT Games besides DS closest to what Euro gamers might also like could be Virgin Queen, Twilight Struggle, Navajo Wars and the COIN series.

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Madison Hanks
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Tzolkin

Twilight Struggle

CO2
 
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+1 Madeira
+1 Brass: Lancashire

I heard Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) is one of the heavy weight as well.
I've never played it tough
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Beyer
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webs05 wrote:
...
18xx would totally be on my list but my wife is my primary game partner and I don't think she would dig 18xx. So I'm concerned about plays.

What if you disguise the genre with an ancient greek theme and call it Poseidon?
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Jon Weber
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Stunke wrote:
webs05 wrote:
...
18xx would totally be on my list but my wife is my primary game partner and I don't think she would dig 18xx. So I'm concerned about plays.

What if you disguise the genre with an ancient greek theme and call it Poseidon?


That has a chance. Is the game any good?
 
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Aaron Yoder
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chatfouz wrote:
Tzolkin



shake


High Frontier - I contest that the rules, as I teach them, are not hard. I just don't see this as a hard-to-learn game. Everybody else disagrees, though, so there's that. Partially because the rule book is meant to display rules for reference, not teach you how to play. Regardless, this is my favorite game for good reason.

Antiquity - rules are simple (really this time), but there's a huge amount of stress and fighting a slippery slope. My wife's favorite, and one of my top games, for sure.

Roads & Boats - take stuff, move it, build stuff with it. Even if you play with the unspoken agreement not to mess with one another, this one's tough. If your opponent tries to take your junk, it gets worse. My wife's a heavy euro player and this one reduced her to tears (literally).

Mage Knight - this one is enormously random, but none of the randomness is deterministic. This leads to brain-busting turns where you try to suss out the most of what you've got in your hand against what is usually an unfair board. More about fighting the game than your friends, but there's a lot of that, too.

Bonus Points: all the above work very very well with 2.
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