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Onirim (second edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Doesn't sleeving this game make it unplayable? rss

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Adam L
United Kingdom
Gravesend
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Hi guys - this is a serious question. I've just sleeved the 76 base cards with premium sleeves, and the whole pile has more than doubled in height, and is now harder to play with than a live, jellied eel! (I haven't actually tried this, by the way.)whistle

Should I just give up, un-sleeve the cards and accept the inevitable wear and tear?

Or if any "sleevers" out there, have found a better solution, please let us know. Thanks.
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Daniel Hill
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I think this is a common issue for most sleeves, I believe over time the sleeves become less eel like after a few shuffles.

There is however 'table side card holders' Ive seen pictures of here on BGG, not something Ive used myself (non sleever) but many people seem to now make these, and believe Esoteric Order of Gamers provides foamcore blueprints for similar things.

All the best,
Dan
 
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The Fire
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This is one of the reasons I stopped using sleeves. That and I really dislike the feel of sleeved cards.

My solution is black Sharpie; if a card gets a really noticeable ding, I pop it with some Sharpie and move on. cool

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Runcible Spoon
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My copy is sleeved.

1. Two piles works when it is slippery. (just got to combine them when shuffling).

2. Play some games with the sleeves on. They tend to compress a bit (the stack decreases in height a bit) and get scuffed and become more tacky with time (i.e. slipperiness wears off).

I wouldn't go with the sharpie suggestion. Instead of a white nick on the card you now have noticeable sharpie marks instead because the black of the sharp never really matches the card back.
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David Jones
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I'm not sure how this game is any different from any other game you might sleeve. The sleeves will lose some of the slickness after use. Similarly, eventually the some of the "air" will work its way out of the sleeves and the deck will not be as large. You might find it easier to put your draw pile into two stacks instead of one, although with all the shuffling you have to do with this game, that may not help much.
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Adam L
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Thanks David.
Essentially, it's no different to any other game, for example I sleeve games like Coup and love letter. But they only have a few cards, and sleeving is (IMHO) essential because of the hidden roles.

But once the deck grows beyond a certain size, sleeving it becomes counter productive - especially for a game that needs shuffling many times - as it takes longer to shuffle and you always run the risk of everything sliding over the table!

The 2 decks solution is a practical compromise, but the game requires shuffling of the whole deck, so you have to group them, then shuffle them, then split them to stop them falling over... I guess this is what's called a "1st world problem!!" We should count our blessings really.
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David Jones
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Quote:
But once the deck grows beyond a certain size, sleeving it becomes counter productive


And the issue here is that this just boils down to personal preference. Many many people sleeve games like Ascension or Legendary which have hundreds of cards. A friend of mine sleeved Spartacus. I've played my copy of Macao over 50 times, so sleeving the 80 cards that come with that game was definitely worthwhile. The behavior of sleeved cards is one of those things you learn to get used to. As a couple of us have pointed out, one of the things you get used to is that freshly sleeved cards behave differently than they do six or seven uses later. Some of the problems you mentioned will get better. Others won't.

I have to admit that Onirim is a bit of an unusual case because you are constantly reshuffling a large draw deck (as opposed to deck builders where your personal draw deck is small). IMHO, Onirim is simply too casual of a game for me to worry about what the quality of the cards will be like a few years down the road.
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Adam L
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Thanks David. You make some fair points. I have sleeved some games, and not others, for the same sorts of reasons. I suppose the heavy use that Onirim cards get made me hope they could be protected for longer, but on balance, I think that I will just have to play un-sleeved. Then, if my game becomes so worn out that it's unplayable, I will have to get another copy (although it will probably be out of print by then! )
 
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Ben Steinhauser
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What are you all storing the game in after you sleeve it? Because it's definitely not going to fit back in the box.
 
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Adam L
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steinhauser wrote:
What are you all storing the game in after you sleeve it? Because it's definitely not going to fit back in the box.


Good question. I would be interested to know. It would be a shame not to use the box - it's an attractive one.
 
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steven smolders
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with the new edition they wouldn't fit into the box if you leave the insert in.

The stack would be to high aswel.
 
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Jorge B
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Well, just split the deck into two or more stacks...
I would be utterly incapable of playing this *without* sleeves, due to the large number of shuffles required. Wearing the game down and then buying a new copy is not an option, as these things tend to go out of stock for extended periods of time, if not forever...
Now if I actually could find a copy of the 2nd edition in Europe...
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Richard Pickman
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tiborvadovan wrote:
Well, just split the deck into two or more stacks...
I would be utterly incapable of playing this *without* sleeves, due to the large number of shuffles required.

This.

I sleeved with thin (Mayday) sleeves and threw away the insert. I have never felt that the draw deck is unmanageable.

Then again, I don't incorporate more than 2 expansions at a time... but I wouldn't want to.
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