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Subject: Attempting to Make an Event scenario rss

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Pete McCartney
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Hey there,
Excuse me if this is in the wrong subforum, will try here to start.

I am hosting a Boardgame Bash of Blood in the end of January, where every year we have hosted multiple games of Werewolf.
Last year I tried my hand at creating my own scenario, and this year with the help of looking at Ted Alspach's scenarios I am hoping to refine it.

Please let me know how you feel about these roles, and my hardest point figuring out how many evils' to villagers to make it fair...


Scenario set-up

I thank you all for gathering here today, this is a dire emergency. Blood has been spilled.
Literally, as you well know, we are all here in this hospital because we are dying, and we need our daily infusions of blood.
However, it appears a coven of Vampires has taken roost in our precious ward! They strike at night, stealing the blood supply of one of our patients! and without their infusion, come the morn, that person will die!
So Hark, we must act, those among you who are capable have come forward and offered their services to aid in fighting off this vampire menace, but the vampires are crafty folk, they hide amongst us, possibly in this very room! I cannot reveal the names of the brave folks that have volunteered, but know, you are all valuable and helpful members of this committee.
And therein lies one of our problems, we are a committee, and thus during business hours we must come to a consensus of a vote, deciding who is hindering our ability to find and stop these vicious creatures. If we can stop all the vampires we can return to our harmonious life, and receive our transfusions, if we cannot, We, Will, All, DIE!

(For Scenario purposes I use the WW's interchangeably with Vampires as they fit the theme better.)

Team Evil:

Vampires(werewolves): Evil vile creatures, who are experts at subterfuge and blending in. Each night you will awaken with your coven and strike, stealing blood from a person, causing them to die come the morning.
Fan (Minion/Sorcerer): You love the vampires, so much that you followed them here, during the first night you sneak out and see who they are, and the following nights you wake up to try and find the juiciest targets for your vampire masters to feast upon.

Team Good:

Patients: (Villagers): I know you are too sick to help with extra duties, but your valuable insight and discussion will assist us in our endeavour
Hematologist: (seer) At night you will use your knowledge of blood to test one of the samples of a patient and see if they register as a vampire or not.
Universal donor (Martyr): after the Vampires have chosen their victim you will awaken, be shown who is their chosen target, you can choose to give up your blood to let them live, but you will die.
Security guard(Insomniac): at night you will patrol the ward trying to spot anyone lurking about. You will point to a player and find out if they woke up at night.
Vampire Slayer (hunter/tough): You knew this day would come, and you are ready for it, if the vampires try to steal your blood in the night, they will go to bed thinking they have succeeded, but little will they know, that you will awaken and spring your trap, following one of them to their bunk and killing it when they sleep. You are now revealed to the group
Twins (Masons): You twins were brought to this hospital without knowledge of your relationship, but the stress of the event has awakened your latent psychic powers. Each night you will awaken and have a chance to silently communicate with each other. However if one of you die the backlash will cause the remaining twin to be unable to talk, ever.
Anemic (anti-diseased?): Your blood is thin. Your blood does not satiate the vampires, the next night they must feed twice to fulfill their lust.

Neutral Team:

The Gamer: Awaken each night, and have the opportunity to awaken another player and play Rock Paper Scissors with them, If you win they are bested and cannot reveal who you are. If you are alive with only people you have beaten at RPS you win the game.

Thank you all for any feedback you can provide me.
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Zed TwoEggs
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Hi. I think this is a fine place for this. Any idea how many folks you'll have?

My first blush thoughts about some of the roles (certainly not gospel - just personal feelings):

I like to keep the night activity flowing to get back to day during F2F WW. Actions are fine, but chats or games might be less manageable. The Gamer doesn't add much to the game for me (swap for villager?) and the twins could probably do alright without the night chat.

The hunter is a great boon for good. The insomniac has potential to be. The Anemic is a boon for evil. I think it could go great/"balanced" depending what the numbers are.

The Minion/Sorcerer might serve better as a "Role Sorcerer" who learns the role of one player each night, but the way you have it is fine too.

I'm going to assuming the social deduction gaming experience level of the group is lowish? This might affect the numbers.
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Ron
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What is your player count? That could make a difference.

Also, as fun as the Gamer character might be, there are two specific reasons why I would axe it from the roster.

1. It will be obvious who the gamer is, just from the sounds and movement.
2. I don't know how much F2F Werewolf you've actually played, but keeping your eyes shut for a specific amount of time hurts after a while. It causes headaches and the like. You've already got a decent number of night actions which will extend the amount of time people have to keep their eyes closed. Introducing this mini-game function will just make it worse.

If you want a neutral, consider changing the neutral to something like the Blob:
The Blob - Team Neutral. Each night, the next living player in the game list is added to The Blob. If at any time, all players have been absorbed into the Blob, the Blob player wins.

This is a silent function and only requires a tiny bit of bookkeeping on your part.
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Robb Effinger
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Quote:

Please let me know how you feel about these roles, and my hardest point figuring out how many evils' to villagers to make it fair...


The general guideline we use on the forums is ~1/3rd evil, ~1/3rd good special, ~1/3rd villager. This is dependent on the power level of the evils/good specials - For example, The Vampire Slayer and Seer are both strong, and the seer is a fair bit stronger in Face-to-Face games then in online games, while the Anemic is weak. If you remove the twins waking up, as well as the Gamer (Both good changes, imo), the Insomniac is almost a second seer - it might be reasonable to change the Insomniac to "You find out if the player is a villager or not" if you want to keep his power level unchanged.

So ya, I'd guess that this roleset is going to run with 6+ vampires (+1 Fan), and 8+ villagers. Actually, most Face to Face games I've seen run with probably more like 1/4 evil, so bumping up the villager count and bringing down the evil count is pretty reasonable. (When in doubt, it's probably better to have more goods than evils - if the game is unbalanced for good, then evil just wins, not much counterplay exists - whereas if there are more goods around then evils that just gives the village a higher chance of lynching a good and bringing the game back into balance)

The reason we run with no more than 1/3rd good specials is to avoid the scenario of on the first day, everyone going around the room and announcing which special character they are. Keep in mind that everyone that has a good special role is someone that the village will (probably) never vote to lynch - so if there are 1/2 good specials, then that half can just vote off the other half and there isn't much play to the game. So if you have fewer than 20 people, you should probably cut some of your special roles (I'd probably cut the Insomniac and Vampire Slayer first).

I'd probably also change the rule about the living mason being unable to talk if their mason partner dies. This rule doesn't add much - we can determine who the living mason is by having everyone go around the room and say something, except one person won't say anything. The living mason doesn't have any game-breaking info. And it may just not be fun for the player - WW games can be long, and are social games - having to sit there and not talk might get boring for some (Some people might have fun with the restriction and gesture wildly, so maybe depends on your group). Alternatively, have them be unable to talk for a day. (I'd also change the rule about them waking up every night - it extends the night phase - they know who they are, if they want to silently communicate they can do so during the day with gestures).

And ya, like others have mentioned, I'm not a fan of the gamer. This role will just extend the night phase. And it's also a rough role to win with - if the gamer loses a game of RPS, then there's a good chance his role is known, since his opponent can just announce who the gamer is the next day. The role also has the the hard-to-enforce/draw the line mechanic of "you can't reveal who the gamer is" - I may not be able to reveal, but I can still nominate the gamer to be lynched and vote for them. I can also beat around the bush - "I'd like to see Joe dead for... Reasons Pertaining to Something".

You didn't specify, but I've been assuming that dead roles are revealed to the village. If that isn't the case, then that's a boon for evil, and you could balance things a bit more in good's favor to compensate. You also didn't mention time limits, and what you're going to do in the event that the village doesn't lynch people within a certain time (eg: No lynch, or a simultaneous pointing game, or choose one person to be safe, who choses one person to be safe, which are the pro-evil, neutral, and pro-good options).

Anyway, have fun
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Greg Wilson
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Robb wrote:
The general guideline we use on the forums is ~1/3rd evil, ~1/3rd good special, ~1/3rd villager.

(snip)

Actually, most Face to Face games I've seen run with probably more like 1/4 evil


The difference here is because we have a lot more non-wolf evils than most F2F games. 1/3 wolves would be far too many; you want more like 1/4 or 1/5.
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Pete McCartney
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zd00 wrote:
Hi. I think this is a fine place for this. Any idea how many folks you'll have?

My first blush thoughts about some of the roles (certainly not gospel - just personal feelings):

I like to keep the night activity flowing to get back to day during F2F WW. Actions are fine, but chats or games might be less manageable. The Gamer doesn't add much to the game for me (swap for villager?) and the twins could probably do alright without the night chat.

The hunter is a great boon for good. The insomniac has potential to be. The Anemic is a boon for evil. I think it could go great/"balanced" depending what the numbers are.

The Minion/Sorcerer might serve better as a "Role Sorcerer" who learns the role of one player each night, but the way you have it is fine too.

I'm going to assuming the social deduction gaming experience level of the group is lowish? This might affect the numbers.


Last year I think I had 16 people stick around for the big WW at the end of the night, hoping for more this year but Don't know for certain yet.

I wanted a neutral party just to add a dynamic, and it being at a gaming event, I thought the Gamer had an interactive touch.

Role Sorc, Instead of Minion or in addition to?

Thank you for your feedback I appreciate it.
 
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Pete McCartney
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linguistfromhell wrote:
What is your player count? That could make a difference.

Also, as fun as the Gamer character might be, there are two specific reasons why I would axe it from the roster.

1. It will be obvious who the gamer is, just from the sounds and movement.
2. I don't know how much F2F Werewolf you've actually played, but keeping your eyes shut for a specific amount of time hurts after a while. It causes headaches and the like. You've already got a decent number of night actions which will extend the amount of time people have to keep their eyes closed. Introducing this mini-game function will just make it worse.

If you want a neutral, consider changing the neutral to something like the Blob:
The Blob - Team Neutral. Each night, the next living player in the game list is added to The Blob. If at any time, all players have been absorbed into the Blob, the Blob player wins.

This is a silent function and only requires a tiny bit of bookkeeping on your part.


I guess I am currently sitting at 6/7 night actions, it is a fair point.
 
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Pete McCartney
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Robb wrote:
Quote:



The general guideline we use on the forums is ~1/3rd evil, ~1/3rd good special, ~1/3rd villager. This is dependent on the power level of the evils/good specials - For example, The Vampire Slayer and Seer are both strong, and the seer is a fair bit stronger in Face-to-Face games then in online games, while the Anemic is weak. If you remove the twins waking up, as well as the Gamer (Both good changes, imo), the Insomniac is almost a second seer - it might be reasonable to change the Insomniac to "You find out if the player is a villager or not" if you want to keep his power level unchanged.


For my own clarification, that would be a Role seer yes?

Quote:
I'd probably also change the rule about the living mason being unable to talk if their mason partner dies. This rule doesn't add much - we can determine who the living mason is by having everyone go around the room and say something, except one person won't say anything. The living mason doesn't have any game-breaking info. And it may just not be fun for the player - WW games can be long, and are social games - having to sit there and not talk might get boring for some (Some people might have fun with the restriction and gesture wildly, so maybe depends on your group). Alternatively, have them be unable to talk for a day. (I'd also change the rule about them waking up every night - it extends the night phase - they know who they are, if they want to silently communicate they can do so during the day with gestures).


I added that one after playing PBEM werewolf and realizing how much fun and interactive it is to have a private chat room with another player, and I was trying to emulate that feeling in a F2F, I thought it was a little too powerful however so added the silence stipulation to curtail that, as well add more incentive to keep your twin alive.
I was considering not telling people how the different roles work and explaining it to the individual people in a letter Ala the DUW edition scenarios, so people might not initially understand why the other player can't talk. And wake them by taping them on their shoulders.

Though Brainstorming here, that might work out well if I do a no-reveal, (which does further complicate the game, but I feel there is a good swing right now in my roles) This I feel could help with some of your comments on the gamer as well? people not knowing what the Gamer is, and why they are playing the game,/ whose side they are on?

Quote:
And ya, like others have mentioned, I'm not a fan of the gamer. This role will just extend the night phase. And it's also a rough role to win with - if the gamer loses a game of RPS, then there's a good chance his role is known, since his opponent can just announce who the gamer is the next day. The role also has the the hard-to-enforce/draw the line mechanic of "you can't reveal who the gamer is" - I may not be able to reveal, but I can still nominate the gamer to be lynched and vote for them. I can also beat around the bush - "I'd like to see Joe dead for... Reasons Pertaining to Something".

Quote:

You didn't specify, but I've been assuming that dead roles are revealed to the village. If that isn't the case, then that's a boon for evil, and you could balance things a bit more in good's favor to compensate. You also didn't mention time limits, and what you're going to do in the event that the village doesn't lynch people within a certain time (eg: No lynch, or a simultaneous pointing game, or choose one person to be safe, who choses one person to be safe, which are the pro-evil, neutral, and pro-good options).


Ah yes, you did say that...
Anyways when it comes to the Timer end, I usually do a No-lynch.

Quote:

Anyway, have fun


Thank you.
 
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Zed TwoEggs
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Cmot Dribbler wrote:
zd00 wrote:
Hi. I think this is a fine place for this. Any idea how many folks you'll have?

My first blush thoughts about some of the roles (certainly not gospel - just personal feelings):

I like to keep the night activity flowing to get back to day during F2F WW. Actions are fine, but chats or games might be less manageable. The Gamer doesn't add much to the game for me (swap for villager?) and the twins could probably do alright without the night chat.

The hunter is a great boon for good. The insomniac has potential to be. The Anemic is a boon for evil. I think it could go great/"balanced" depending what the numbers are.

The Minion/Sorcerer might serve better as a "Role Sorcerer" who learns the role of one player each night, but the way you have it is fine too.

I'm going to assuming the social deduction gaming experience level of the group is lowish? This might affect the numbers.


Last year I think I had 16 people stick around for the big WW at the end of the night, hoping for more this year but Don't know for certain yet.

I wanted a neutral party just to add a dynamic, and it being at a gaming event, I thought the Gamer had an interactive touch.

Role Sorc, Instead of Minion or in addition to?

Thank you for your feedback I appreciate it.
No reveal might make new players a bit fussy/disconnected.

With 16 players I'm thinking 3 max plus 2 aux. The Vamp slayer kills one so 4 maxes might be doable, but could still get a bit away from the village. I'd rather have a slight good edge in a game than an evil one.

At 16 players, you'll probably need to pare down the 7 specials too, because otherwise you'd have.. 4 villagers which probably isn't great. 6 specials 5 villagers might be doable, though 5 specials 6 vills might be better. Maybe swap the twins for two vills. Or make the twins lovers instead, which helps evil out a bit and makes them somewhat less likely to claim early for view coordination. If you have lovers, you could change the vamp slayer to a brutal hunter, which helps evil out a bit and makes 3 max/2 aux more viable.

So maybe..

Vamp
vamp
Vamp
Cultist - Knows all evils
Role Sorc - learns one player's role each night

Vamp Seer
Martyr
Insomniac
Brutal Hunter (not tough - picks a player to die upon death)
2xLovers
5x villies

The brutal hunter could misfire early coupled with a lover death and put good behind. Two auxes might be a bit tricky for new folks too. They might get eaten. They might not know what to do. I think it'd be fun though.
 
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Robb Effinger
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Cmot Dribbler wrote:
Robb wrote:
Quote:



The general guideline we use on the forums is ~1/3rd evil, ~1/3rd good special, ~1/3rd villager. This is dependent on the power level of the evils/good specials - For example, The Vampire Slayer and Seer are both strong, and the seer is a fair bit stronger in Face-to-Face games then in online games, while the Anemic is weak. If you remove the twins waking up, as well as the Gamer (Both good changes, imo), the Insomniac is almost a second seer - it might be reasonable to change the Insomniac to "You find out if the player is a villager or not" if you want to keep his power level unchanged.


For my own clarification, that would be a Role seer yes?



I mean a max-evil seer (wakes up, finds out if someone is a vampire). They're strong in F2F games than online because of the ability to wisper to the people besides them. F2F seers often will check out the people beside them, and create a voting block full of "clears". When they do find a max evil, someone else from that voting block will often pretend to be the seer, so the seer doesn't die in the night. These plays are hard to do (basically impossible) during online play.


Quote:
I'd probably also change the rule about the living mason being unable to talk if their mason partner dies. This rule doesn't add much - we can determine who the living mason is by having everyone go around the room and say something, except one person won't say anything. The living mason doesn't have any game-breaking info. And it may just not be fun for the player - WW games can be long, and are social games - having to sit there and not talk might get boring for some (Some people might have fun with the restriction and gesture wildly, so maybe depends on your group). Alternatively, have them be unable to talk for a day. (I'd also change the rule about them waking up every night - it extends the night phase - they know who they are, if they want to silently communicate they can do so during the day with gestures).


I added that one after playing PBEM werewolf and realizing how much fun and interactive it is to have a private chat room with another player, and I was trying to emulate that feeling in a F2F, I thought it was a little too powerful however so added the silence stipulation to curtail that, as well add more incentive to keep your twin alive.
I was considering not telling people how the different roles work and explaining it to the individual people in a letter Ala the DUW edition scenarios, so people might not initially understand why the other player can't talk. And wake them by taping them on their shoulders.

[/q]
It is certainly fun to have a private chatroom - but it's also fun to try to privately communicate in the crowd. The difference with having a night phase chatroom in a F2F game is a) That you can't talk in the chatroom, and even gesturing too much will make noise, so communication is a lot harder, and b) It's a lot less fun for the other players. Currently, You need to wake up the wolves, the aux's, the seer, the martyr, and the insomniac. If the wolves take at least 1 minute to make a decision, and most other players take 30 seconds for to decide, and you to respond to them, that's at least 3 minutes of sitting around with your eyes closed for the villagers, and 2:30 for most other roles. And there will certainly be nights where the wolves take longer. Adding in a mason chat is just going to add more time - and the more time you add, the less enjoyable it will be for the others, but if you don't give them much time, what's the point of them waking up? Similarly with the Gamer role - that's another 30 seconds, at least, of night phase... and a lot more if you have to explain to everyone that the gamer plays against that they have to play a game of Rock Paper Scissors.

Eh, I have strong opinions, but you know the group, and you're running the game, so obviously, you have more info here than I do .

 
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Ron
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zd00 wrote:
Cmot Dribbler wrote:
zd00 wrote:
Hi. I think this is a fine place for this. Any idea how many folks you'll have?

My first blush thoughts about some of the roles (certainly not gospel - just personal feelings):

I like to keep the night activity flowing to get back to day during F2F WW. Actions are fine, but chats or games might be less manageable. The Gamer doesn't add much to the game for me (swap for villager?) and the twins could probably do alright without the night chat.

The hunter is a great boon for good. The insomniac has potential to be. The Anemic is a boon for evil. I think it could go great/"balanced" depending what the numbers are.

The Minion/Sorcerer might serve better as a "Role Sorcerer" who learns the role of one player each night, but the way you have it is fine too.

I'm going to assuming the social deduction gaming experience level of the group is lowish? This might affect the numbers.


Last year I think I had 16 people stick around for the big WW at the end of the night, hoping for more this year but Don't know for certain yet.

I wanted a neutral party just to add a dynamic, and it being at a gaming event, I thought the Gamer had an interactive touch.

Role Sorc, Instead of Minion or in addition to?

Thank you for your feedback I appreciate it.
No reveal might make new players a bit fussy/disconnected.

With 16 players I'm thinking 3 max plus 2 aux. The Vamp slayer kills one so 4 maxes might be doable, but could still get a bit away from the village. I'd rather have a slight good edge in a game than an evil one.

At 16 players, you'll probably need to pare down the 7 specials too, because otherwise you'd have.. 4 villagers which probably isn't great. 6 specials 5 villagers might be doable, though 5 specials 6 vills might be better. Maybe swap the twins for two vills. Or make the twins lovers instead, which helps evil out a bit and makes them somewhat less likely to claim early for view coordination. If you have lovers, you could change the vamp slayer to a brutal hunter, which helps evil out a bit and makes 3 max/2 aux more viable.

So maybe..

Vamp
vamp
Vamp
Cultist - Knows all evils
Role Sorc - learns one player's role each night

Vamp Seer
Martyr
Insomniac
Brutal Hunter (not tough - picks a player to die upon death)
2xLovers
5x villies

The brutal hunter could misfire early coupled with a lover death and put good behind. Two auxes might be a bit tricky for new folks too. They might get eaten. They might not know what to do. I think it'd be fun though.
I'd caution against a Role Sorc for F2F games. It's useful and good in theory, but in a F2F game, remember that you have to give out information. Most questions that are asked at night ("does that player have a night action?", "Is that player a Vampire?", "Who are you going to protect?") have very straight-forward responses - 2 yes/nos and one 'point at another player'.

How do you answer a role sorc? Are you going to bring a white board and write the answers? Are you going to have duplicate cards and hold up the right one for the answer? You certainly can't say it out loud.

IMO, there are three decent options for this role in place of a role sorc.
Make it a targeted sorcerer "views for Vamp Seer".
Make it an alignment seer "views for good".
Or, with practice or planning, you can ramp it up a bit. Have him point at a player. You can respond with 1 finger if evil, 2 if good, 3 if a good special.

Also, you need to decide before the game starts if evil auxes count for good parity or evil parity. On BGG WW, they usually* count for good parity (ie, the win condition is: Evil/Wolves win when the number of wolves equal the number of non-wolves - including evil auxes). If you want to go the other route (evil wins when the number of evil players equal the number of non-evil players), that works too. It just means the games will end quicker.

*Edited in the usually.
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Zed TwoEggs
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Good call on role sorc. I usually sign the first letter of the role in those situations but that might be too fiddly or not work with the role names.

I'd recommend auxes count as good parity if yours using five total evils.
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I just skimmed, and I think you already have several good people on it, so I'll just say that I linked this thread here: Re: Werewolf Roleset Live Game Recommendations
 
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Regarding role views, I did see someone that used a white board with all the roles written and pointed to them. When the person needed to pick a role, they signed the number the role was positioned at. But yeah, seemed fiddly.
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