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Subject: do you limit the number of tiles? rss

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Mark Campo
United Kingdom
Manchester
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hi i was wondering with all the expansions for this game, do any of you just play with a limited tile selection,

the base game had 70 ish tiles?
with River, King scout, Traders & builders , Inns & caths that makes 150 ish tiles?

i was thinking of just randomly taking out abotu 1/2 the tiles eachtime i play, you dont knwo what to expect tile wise and its a nice shorter game..

oh i only play 2 player want to try it with more but never get the chance....

I was thinking a good tile expansion would be a random game end timer tiles mixed in...Game ends when 3 of end game tiles are pulled out or something like that ranther then removeing tiles or played till th end...



 
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Christopher Hinsz
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A random game ender is exactly the way I play. I drop the "50/100" tiles from Inns & Cathedrals into the tile selection bag at specified times. A player who draws a "50/100" tile places it near the scoring track for all to see and then draws another tile. When the second of these tiles is drawn, the game ends.

My brother is a statistician, so I asked him to create a spread sheet that would help to calculate the expected # of tiles drawn before the game ended and when to add the "50/100" tiles to the mix. My goal was to get the expected number to around 70 tiles (like to original game).

One additional factor that I like about this is that all the tiles are in play, but the end isn't known. No more feeling the bag to estimate the number of tiles. This often means that people's strategies vary once they see the first "50/100" tile show up, and there is more of a 'press your luck' feel to building large castles. Unlike normal Carc where we found that everyone just went for quick road points once they could feel that the bag was almost gone.
 
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DAVID MERCER
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Spanish Fort
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Had never thought of that, but not a bad idea. Here's a slight mod: have four end-game tiles in the mix. Every time a an end-game tile comes up, the farms are scored at 1pt per city. This works out, in the end, to four points per city like normal, but reward for early placement of farmers and and not such a big scoring bonanza at the end. Game ends when the fourth end-game tile is drawn.

If anybody plays a limited-tile variant, please let us know how it goes.
 
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Mark Campo
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great idea using the 50/100 tiles :-) also i like that farmer idea too...

 
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DAVID MERCER
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If my math is correct, a game with a total of n tiles, m of which are "end-game" tiles, all of which must be pulled before the game ends, lasts on average

m(n+1)
(m+1)

tiles. This means 150 tiles, 4 end-game tiles results in an average game length of 120.8 tiles (including the end-game tiles).

Fewer end-game tiles results in a shorter game. Of course, this formula does not take into account the situation where you may have five end-game tiles, but only four have to be drawn to end the game. I'd have to redo my algebra to figure that one out.
 
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Zach Toups
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Ugh...it's been too long since I had discrete mathematics...

Anyway, these sound interesting...I might have to try them when I play with my wife. We actually gobbled up expansions because we felt that the base game didn't last long enough (we always got really sad when the last few tiles remained)...but now the game has gone from taking 30 minutes to taking 120...limiting how often we can play.
-Zach
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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We play with the same number of tiles as the base game, no matter which or how many expansions are involved.

If we want to play longer, we'll just play twice. 72 tiles is plenty enough to determine a winner.
 
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Michael Jordal
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I sometimes just cut a selection of the tiles out randomly.
 
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DAVID MERCER
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dmercer wrote:
Of course, this formula does not take into account the situation where you may have five end-game tiles, but only four have to be drawn to end the game. I'd have to redo my algebra to figure that one out.


A game with a total of n tiles, m of which are "end-game" tiles, only l of which must be pulled before the game ends, lasts on average

l(n+1)
(m+1)

tiles. This means if you throw the five scout tiles into the mix and say that once four are drawn the game ends, if you have a total of 120 tiles, your game will last, on average, 80 turns (though you would probably let the players who drew the first three scout tiles draw again, so subtract three for a 77-turn game).
 
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Matthew Webster
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Rulemonger wrote:
We play with the same number of tiles as the base game, no matter which or how many expansions are involved.

If we want to play longer, we'll just play twice. 72 tiles is plenty enough to determine a winner.


I like this idea. It seems that you have 2 choices: either mix base+expansion tiles togther e.g. Carcasonne + Traders & Buidlers then remove a random selection (this means you don't actually know what the winning total for a particular good will be), or take all the expansion tiles and remove certain tiles from the base e.g. cities.

I personally don't like the random ending conditions suggested in this thread as I normally change my tactics as the game draws to a close.
 
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Czech Mate
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goldy wrote:
A random game ender is exactly the way I play. I drop the "50/100" tiles from Inns & Cathedrals into the tile selection bag at specified times. A player who draws a "50/100" tile places it near the scoring track for all to see and then draws another tile. When the second of these tiles is drawn, the game ends.


Another way to do this would be to leave the end-tiles for
the rivers in the bag, instead of placing them at the beginning.

Then, end the game when all the rivers are complete.

mikey.
 
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