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Subject: HB: The Foundry - NEXT/Grail decks rss

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Stephen Parkes
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This is so obviously a thing but no-one seems to have posted any decks yet. I've just tweaked my one and haven't playtested the amended version yet so am not posting the decklist now. Thoughts I have so far though:

- Grail ice is hilarious. I destroyed my (admittedly still rather nooby) mate's Reina rig when he ran without a sentry breaker last night. Rezzed Lancelot, fetched another, revealed the new one and killed his Yog and I think his Rook. he then continued the run, into an unrezzed Galahad, which I rezzed and buffed with a pair of Lancelots, killing his Djinn/Datasucker and the Knight he had out. Something like that. It was amazing. Well, I thought so.
- People not running/causing you to rez can cause problems. NEXT Bronze stuck at strength 3 is annoying.
- Too many code gates in an unfortunate encounter with Gordian Blade meant that my other mate smashed through what I had thought was a relatively safe server. Alas, IQ > Mother Goddess > Merlin meant he only had to pump the strength once and then smashed through for very little money.
- Minimal influence left after the Grail imports was partly spent on research stations to increase hand size to allow for holding on to more cards for grail shenanigans.
- Mother Goddess is a nice NEXT boost. Currently running two of but might ditch one.

Changes I've made:

- IQ has come out. Too many code gates. Thought it would be a good combo with research station but it just becomes a pain to rez.
- Ichi 2.0 has gone in. High strength sentry and not fully clickable. Hopefully a nasty surprise in the mid to late game.

Things I'm unsure about:

- Peak efficiency
- Biotic labo(u)r
- Crisium grid (same game as the Gordian Blade incident, played this on R&D to protect against R&D Interfaces then realised it DIDN'T WORK).

Usual staples of hedge fund, Adonis and GLC for credits. Agendas no great surprise except for a Hades Fragment.

Anyone else running this type of thing?
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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I played NEXT/Grail Foundry deck for a while and I think the key card the deck needs is Executive Boot Camp - because it allows you to use your ID on your turn and rez exactly what you want. My current list is:

Agenda:
3x Accelerated Beta Test
3x NAPD Contract
2x Gila Hands Arcology
1x Eden Fragment
1x Hades Fragment

Econ:
3x Adonis Campaign
3x Hedge Fund
3x Green Level Clearance
2x Peak Efficiency

Tricks:
3x Jackson Howard
3x Executive Boot Camp
2x Biotic Labor

ICE:
3x Eli 1.0
3x NEXT Silver
3x Galahad
3x NEXT Bronze
3x Merlin
3x Lancelot
2x Architect

Beginning of the game can be quite rough, but once you get EBT going, you can make your servers very taxing. Of course Parasite recursion is a problem, luckily due to everyone playing Architect and Lotus Field people play less of those recently.
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Captain Frisk
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hsiale wrote:
Of course Parasite recursion is a problem, luckily due to everyone playing Architect and Lotus Field people play less of those recently.

Interesting - I had similar problems as you... parasite recursion sucked, but in my meta nobody is playing architect, and everyone is playing Noise - so the parasites never run out, and destorying their rig or even hitting them with damage was irrelevant.

Haven't revisisted with EBT... I found that it didn't take long before medium vs. R&D was a big big problem.
 
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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3XExecutive Boot Camp

Most important card now in Foundry IMHO.

It will give you 1 cred discount, it will trigger the Foundry ability in your turn (and rez/fetch the precious NEXT) (and maybe it will trigger at your opponent's turn if he runs) and it will trash to fetch you an eve and then play it/bluff it with an agenda.

Also, it is good to run 2X Cronos protocol if you plan to play an FA version (with biotic labors) so that it will remove a bit of the recurring parasite, events threat).

I think that the deck is solid, however we are still waiting for NEXT gold.
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Brad Metz
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I ended up dropping the Next due to parasite and derezzing shenanigans in my meta. I was using Amazon Industrial zone, but have taken it out because without the NEXT I don't necessarily need to use my ability at every opportunity. Executive bootcamp would be super fun, but I glacier pretty hard and I'm not sure I want to dedicate server space to keep it in play. Adonis really only gets installed during server buildup or in an alternate. I am loving Shell corporation since when unrezzed it's another Will-o-the-whisp and rezzed I can put credits on it until I can draw the runner into the server I want (or make bank). Fast track is the new tweak after our league tournament made me think I needed more precision in taking advantage of scoring windows (since I'm stupidly running big agendas). It replaced Enhanced login protocols since I'm always loathe to play that card for some reason.

I'm most looking forward to Excalibur which will allow me to hold less grail in hand, but after looking at some of ya'lls' lists I'd say when Gold comes I'll probably wing back around to NEXT again.


ROI Foundry shelled

The Foundry: Refining the Process (The Spaces Between)

Agenda (8)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
1x Eden Fragment (The Spaces Between)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
1x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
2x Priority Requisition (Core Set)

Asset (8)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
2x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Upgrade (4)
2x Shell Corporation (All That Remains)
2x Will-o'-the-Wisp (The Spaces Between)

Operation (10)
2x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Peak Efficiency (Up and Over)

Barrier (7)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x Galahad (Upstalk) •••
1x Heimdall 1.0 (Core Set)

Code Gate (6)
3x Merlin (All That Remains) •••
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) •••

Sentry (6)
3x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
3x Lancelot (First Contact) •••

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
 
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Grish Noren
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Amazon Industrial Zone is about as effective and far more economically rewarding, but you're restricted to a single server and have to pay more influence.
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Shawn Neibaur
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gumOnShoe wrote:
Amazon Industrial Zone is about as effective and far more economically rewarding, but you're restricted to a single server and have to pay more influence.

Amazon Industrial Zone also doesn't rez for free, costs one less to trash and can't be used to rez assets and other cards when you don't necessarily need to rez your ice. I've found Amazon significantly less useful, personally.

EDIT - Another fringe benefit, you can pay a credit and trash Exec Boot Camp to shuffle R&D after an indexing run if the runner attempts a follow up access. That's not going to see a ton of use, but it's more then nothing.
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Stephen Parkes
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I do love knackering an indexing run. Good times.

So, EBC it is. 3 of, ditching the Crisiums and a research station I guess. Might trade the GLCs for Eve's and a 3rd peak efficiency too, as the card draw was just annoying when I played it, and rather unnecessary with the foundry ability and EBC's tutoring I would imagine.
 
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Captain Frisk
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Tolheim wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
Amazon Industrial Zone is about as effective and far more economically rewarding, but you're restricted to a single server and have to pay more influence.

Amazon Industrial Zone also doesn't rez for free, costs one less to trash and can't be used to rez assets and other cards when you don't necessarily need to rez your ice. I've found Amazon significantly less useful, personally.

EDIT - Another fringe benefit, you can pay a credit and trash Exec Boot Camp to shuffle R&D after an indexing run if the runner attempts a follow up access. That's not going to see a ton of use, but it's more then nothing.

Added bonus - people will run the boot camp as they watch you get free rezzes on your turn (where AIZ has already done its damage) - when they are about to hit it? Go fetch your eve campaign!
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Jack Kelly
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Every time I've seen Peak Efficiency in my hand I would have much preferred to see Restructure. The only time it's better is if you've somehow been knocked low on credits with 5+ ICE rezzed.

I've seen it early and it just clogged my hand while I booted up all my ICE. I've seen it late after a successful Adonis or Eve Campaign. I would much rather play GLC (though that's risky with Foundry's deck thinning) if I need something cheap or Restructure.
 
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Brian K
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I made a similar deck recently. The other day, after much deliberation, I stuck Isabel McGuire into it. The theory is that she allows me to pull the lower power grail ice back into my hand later in the game and replace it with the stronger stuff. (Or at least the stuff the runner isn't prepared to break). Once it's back in my hand, I can still use its subroutines.

I haven't tried the deck out yet. We'll see if she winds up as wasted space.
 
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Grish Noren
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Here's the end game of a foundry deck that used amazon and peak efficiency to good use. In this deck its possible to play amazon down in a server, throw a next silver down, getting your second one and throwing that down as well outside the same amazon. In this deck, peak efficiency was a really good include because he was mainly building two towers. One on R&D and the other on the remote.

Reversed accounts was used to open windows to score agendas & edge or world was a pretty nasty trap too.
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Brad Metz
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Brianish wrote:
I made a similar deck recently. The other day, after much deliberation, I stuck Isabel McGuire into it. The theory is that she allows me to pull the lower power grail ice back into my hand later in the game and replace it with the stronger stuff. (Or at least the stuff the runner isn't prepared to break). Once it's back in my hand, I can still use its subroutines.

I haven't tried the deck out yet. We'll see if she winds up as wasted space.

Hah, I tried that game with Midori, it's a good time when it happened, but ultimately not worth the influence for my style. Report back, it could be fun
 
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Michael Redston
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you use EBC to rez Adonis/Eve/PAD, etc. then they won't pay you until next turn right?
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Jeff Gum
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kroen wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you use EBC to rez Adonis/Eve/PAD, etc. then they won't pay you until next turn right?

Correct.

I've been playing around with Foundry with the Grail and Next suites since First Contact (having proxied Merlin using the draft version), and generally speaking it's been going pretty well for me. Some crucial cards, I think, are Executive Boot Camp (it's crazy how much this strengthened the deck, I was honestly amazed) and Corporate Troubleshooter. I've trashed whole rigs because runners take a potshot at a remote protected by Galahad, only to see Troubleshooter rez and two Lancelots come out of hand. Rig trashing to extend your rush time is critical, so I'd also say try an AggSec or two.
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T. Rosen
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Here is my Foundry/NEXT/Grail deck list. The deck went 3-1 at one tournament (with 24 people) and 4-0 at another tournament (with 21 people), so it's working pretty well for me. The one loss was to Noise/Parasite obviously, but it's also beaten Parasite decks.

Agenda (10)
3 Accelerated Beta Test
1 Efficiency Committee
3 NAPD Contract
3 Project Vitruvius

Asset (12)
3 Adonis Campaign
3 Eve Campaign
3 Jackson Howard
3 Melange Mining Corp

Upgrade (4)
3 Ash 2X3ZB9CY
1 SanSan City Grid

Operation (6)
3 Biotic Labor
3 Hedge Fund

Barrier (6)
3 Galahad
3 NEXT Silver

Code Gate (6)
3 Merlin
3 NEXT Bronze

Sentry (4)
1 Architect
3 Lancelot

ICE (1)
1 Mother Goddess

At the first tournament I was using 1 Tollbooth and 1 Rototurret instead of the SanSan City Grid and Architect. I swapped out to Architect because I had enough program destruction and swapped out to SanSan because I had a spare influence and fast advance is needed to close it out in the late game.

The strength of the deck is being able to get to the mid game very quickly. The early game is over almost before the Runner knows it. This is especially true because they need to be careful of a Lancelot subroutine on a Galahad or Merlin. There are lots of cheap end-the-run ice here so the centrals and a remote or two get protected very quickly. I can usually then score an agenda or two the old-fashioned way without needing to use Biotic Labors. I generally try to save Biotics for the late game when the ice becomes more porous and I need to score the last agenda or two from hand. Parasite is obviously a problem, but I've played several Noise decks and won so it's not insurmountable.

Potential future changes include:
-Swapping the Melange Corps for Pad Campaign to save on clicks potentially since there's usually more than enough credits.
-Swapping the Efficiency Committee for two 3-1 agendas perhaps.
-Finding space for Enhanced Login Protocol... I wish.
 
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Shane Ruman
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I have been experimenting with Foundry as well. My first comment when reading the OP was -- "Love NEXT Ice but had to abandon due to parasite recursion". Noise is fairly prevalent in meta so that's hell and it seems every other runner packs 1-2 (and maybe some clone chips). Switched the NEXT out for taxing bioroids and seeing how that goes (more expensive, so will have to deal with that).
 
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Zeb
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NEXT ice will be solid GOLD when the next piece comes out
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The Tak
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Zebadiah wrote:
NEXT ice will be solid GOLD when the next piece comes out

As long as it has a strength higher than 1 ><

I like the idea, but a single parasite with some recursion can wreck your day. Still, I won't quit trying to make it work either whistle
 
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Shawn Neibaur
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theTak wrote:
Zebadiah wrote:
NEXT ice will be solid GOLD when the next piece comes out

As long as it has a strength higher than 1 ><

I like the idea, but a single parasite with some recursion can wreck your day. Still, I won't quit trying to make it work either whistle

Given that we currently have ice that gets stronger (weak to femme) and ice that gains subroutines (weak to parasite), I wonder if NEXT Gold won't be awesome ice that gets cheaper the more NEXT ice there is already rezzed on the board. Otherwise you get dangerously close to being just another NEXT Bronze/Silver.

Or, if we're going into truly weird territory, it could be ice with a whole bunch of different subtypes:

NEXT Gold (X cost)
(NEXT, Destroyer, AP, Sentry, Barrier, Code Gate)
When encountered, the corp player may name one ICE subtype for each rezzed piece of NEXT ice. NEXT Gold is treated as though it does not possess that subtype for the remainder of this run.
Sub 1: trash one program or deal one net damage
Sub 2: End the Run

However it works. I'm sure it will be awesome in Foundry. At that point it might be worth running the NEXT suite and the Grail suite with no other ice.
 
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Stephen Parkes
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Brianish wrote:
I made a similar deck recently. The other day, after much deliberation, I stuck Isabel McGuire into it. The theory is that she allows me to pull the lower power grail ice back into my hand later in the game and replace it with the stronger stuff. (Or at least the stuff the runner isn't prepared to break). Once it's back in my hand, I can still use its subroutines.

I haven't tried the deck out yet. We'll see if she winds up as wasted space.
Not a bad idea. Can tutor for her with EBC too, which will likely be around the point you might actually want to be able to use her ability. I think I'm going to add a single copy to my deck.
 
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Jeff Gum
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I actually run 2x Izzy MacGuire in my Foundry. She's pretty solid, both for the reasons mentioned and her ability to reset Adonis and Eve.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Thommy8 wrote:
Here is my Foundry/NEXT/Grail deck list. The deck went 3-1 at one tournament (with 24 people) and 4-0 at another tournament (with 21 people), so it's working pretty well for me. The one loss was to Noise/Parasite obviously, but it's also beaten Parasite decks.

Agenda (10)
3 Accelerated Beta Test
1 Efficiency Committee
3 NAPD Contract
3 Project Vitruvius

Asset (12)
3 Adonis Campaign
3 Eve Campaign
3 Jackson Howard
3 Melange Mining Corp

Upgrade (4)
3 Ash 2X3ZB9CY
1 SanSan City Grid

Operation (6)
3 Biotic Labor
3 Hedge Fund

Barrier (6)
3 Galahad
3 NEXT Silver

Code Gate (6)
3 Merlin
3 NEXT Bronze

Sentry (4)
1 Architect
3 Lancelot

ICE (1)
1 Mother Goddess

At the first tournament I was using 1 Tollbooth and 1 Rototurret instead of the SanSan City Grid and Architect. I swapped out to Architect because I had enough program destruction and swapped out to SanSan because I had a spare influence and fast advance is needed to close it out in the late game.

The strength of the deck is being able to get to the mid game very quickly. The early game is over almost before the Runner knows it. This is especially true because they need to be careful of a Lancelot subroutine on a Galahad or Merlin. There are lots of cheap end-the-run ice here so the centrals and a remote or two get protected very quickly. I can usually then score an agenda or two the old-fashioned way without needing to use Biotic Labors. I generally try to save Biotics for the late game when the ice becomes more porous and I need to score the last agenda or two from hand. Parasite is obviously a problem, but I've played several Noise decks and won so it's not insurmountable.

Potential future changes include:
-Swapping the Melange Corps for Pad Campaign to save on clicks potentially since there's usually more than enough credits.
-Swapping the Efficiency Committee for two 3-1 agendas perhaps.
-Finding space for Enhanced Login Protocol... I wish.

As a fellow Foundry:FA player, few questions to help with my tuning:
- with 17 ice, do you find you have too many ice fairly soon -- over-filling hand and not enough money to place/rez them anyway. I'm trying to judge what is the correct # with Foundry's ability. Played 15 in a few games and thinking about dropping to 14 even. The X factor with grail (tried different ice sets) is that you want to keep 2 in hand which slows down ice-placement/drawing.

- what usually is the level of protection you dedicate to the asset economy? Any experience against Whizzard? How rough is that on such an asset heavy economy?
 
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Hao Ming Lim
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Ice destruction is the bane of the NEXT Ice suite. I cringe when a runner uses parasite, and cheer up when they don't.

Having used the NEXT suite for quite sometime, I've been wrapping my head around NEXT GOLD and what it would look like, taking into account, the frailty of NEXT ICE with parasite, and the fact that FFG tries to design cards that nudge players to try under use cards.

With that, I came up with this idea.

NEXT Gold
ICE NEXT, Destroyer, Tracer, Sentry • Rez: 5 • Strength: 4 • Influence: 2
Programs cannot be hosted on NEXT Gold.
NEXT Gold Trace strength has +1 for each rezzed piece of NEXT ice.
Sub 1: TraceX– If successful, Trash 1 program.
Sub 2: TraceX– If successful, end the run.

This way, Gold is parasite immune, but not to Kraken, and that new O&C card that trashes sentries once all subs have been broken.

This also allows some breathing room for the Corp running NEXT Ice when you match up with the dreaded parasite recursion deck.

Cheers.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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I played NEXT/Grail the first week that lancelot came out.

They underperformed. Can't remember why. But they were worse in practice.
 
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