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Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Fantasy Flight LCG games in App form? rss

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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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This seems like such a no brainer. Why can't we play Netrunner, Star Wars LCG, etc, in app form?

BattleLore now has an app, and FFG will have a critical app for XCom, so they're getting into the app business, is there any chance that any FFG LCGs will move to app form some day?

I got really into Netrunner for a while but there just isn't anyone here to play against on a regular basis, no one who owns their own cards that I know of. But I would be happy to pay a few bucks per deck as In-App Purchases to play online.

This isn't so much a complaint, more of a request for information. Does FFG have an official stance on not turning these LCGs into apps? Have they been asked and have they provided an opinion? Is it something that is inevitable, or will it never happen?

I know some of you will come on and say you'd never play the app and it wouldn't be the same, but man I'd love to get my hands on it if it ever existed. Seems like printing money to me.
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IMO, it's coming.

I think it may be a factor in the merger.
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Ian Toltz
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Games like this are really poorly designed for electronic play, due to requiring frequent, blocking input from both players at all stages of the game.

That doesn't mean it won't happen, just that it's a bad idea. See Magic Online or Octgn for examples of the sort of hoops necessary to translate these kinds of games to digital formats. Then look at Hearthstone as an example of a similar type of game that's designed explicitly for play electronically.

Regardless of how you might feel about the gameplay, the experience of playing a game on Hearthstone is vastly more enjoyable than that of playing a game on Magic Online, or playing Netrunner on Octgn. And while Hearthstone's client is also a lot more polished than the competition, it's really the inherent gameplay of the games themselves that make all the difference.
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Dirk Meijer
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Azgard12 wrote:
IMO, it's coming.

I think it may be a factor in the merger.


How so? Does Asmodee have more mobile app experience?

I do think it's a logical step, and playing Netrunner quickly and easily on a touch screen would be the best thing ever.
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Aaron Percival
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A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
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Would I need to re-buy my collection of ANR stuff for an official digital platform?

Would I need to buy hard and soft copies of all future releases?

IMO the current system works well: We have official hard products released and supported by FFG; we have unofficial soft products administered by the community, which FFG seems to unofficially accept. i.e. they haven't tried to stop people from playing on OCTGN.

I know that many people would love to see an elegant cross-platform solution (myself included), but this might not be too far off for with jinteki.net.

I'm not sure what more anyone thinks FFG could add to what's already out there that won't make life more difficult and more expensive for us.

One thing to consider: if FFG does release an official app, we can probably say goodbye to the unofficial (and free) ways we currently play digitally.
 
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David Boeren
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There is no official app right now, but you can get LackeyCCG for iPad and play that way, there are plugins for most of the LCGs (I don't think Conquest has one yet).
 
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Mike Em
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I would be happy with IOS releases of deck builders for each of their LCG's! That would be a great place to start!
 
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Aaron Percival
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A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
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dboeren wrote:
There is no official app right now, but you can get LackeyCCG for iPad and play that way, there are plugins for most of the LCGs (I don't think Conquest has one yet).


I was thinking about doing this. It's $5 in the app store (I think). Do you have any experience playing this on the iPad? If so, could you elaborate?

 
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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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Taking Netrunner as the example, the point is well taken that there is a lot of interruption, since Corp can rez cards at any time, etc.

I think that simply means that the game can't be asynchronous like Summoner Wars, that it has to be played live a la Hearthstone. The audience, while not Hearthstone-sized, would certainly be big enough to warrant this. Heck, even with Summoner Wars' comparatively small audience and no new armies for a year AND async games being the norm, I'm still sucessful at getting a 15-30 minute (ie not really async) game going 60% of the time on the app.

I don't see why it would be hard to play synchronously. Just a quick tap to respond to each action. Since the game takes care of all the rules for you, it wouldn't be hard at all to simply tap the screen a few times per opponent's turn.. Put a chess clock on the game to keep people from taking too long.
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David Boeren
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Cumber wrote:
I would be happy with IOS releases of deck builders for each of their LCG's! That would be a great place to start!


I have been continually astounded by the lack of a generic deck builder app that you can use with whatever games you wish. Seems like such a no-brainer for someone to make. However, LackeyCCG does include a deck builder so there is that.


Percy0715 wrote:
dboeren wrote:
There is no official app right now, but you can get LackeyCCG for iPad and play that way, there are plugins for most of the LCGs.


I was thinking about doing this. It's $5 in the app store (I think). Do you have any experience playing this on the iPad? If so, could you elaborate?


As it happens, I just installed it a couple days ago. I haven't played an actual game online yet, but I have installed the plugins for Call of Cthulhu, Netrunner, and Lord of the Rings (more to follow, I'm sure).

I have played using LackeyCCG on my laptop before though and it looks very familiar so I don't expect it to be too far different other than the pictures being smaller (particularly since I have an iPad Mini rather than the larger iPad). However, it's not really an issue as you can just touch any card on the table to see it in larger form (you can actually control how big you want it too).

Note that both the iPad and computer versions use the same server you all clients are cross-compatible.
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Rick Kurasz
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are there opponents readily available for NR on Lackey?
 
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Well, there's this:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/News/employmen...

But it could be for anything...
 
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Matthew Hughey
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I would pay a lot of money to have a real A:NR experience like MTGO has. OCTGN is too much headache for me.
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.. but your app will delete cycles from your mobile device after 2 years.


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djfooboo wrote:
I would pay a lot of money to have a real A:NR experience like MTGO has. OCTGN is too much headache for me.


MTGO is a mess, I hope ANR is implemented better than that!
 
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Azgard12 wrote:
Well, there's this:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/News/employmen...

But it could be for anything...

The same requirements are needed for more than games. For example, their Xcom app.
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dboeren wrote:
Cumber wrote:
I would be happy with IOS releases of deck builders for each of their LCG's! That would be a great place to start!


I have been continually astounded by the lack of a generic deck builder app that you can use with whatever games you wish. Seems like such a no-brainer for someone to make. However, LackeyCCG does include a deck builder so there is that.

Deck restrictions and card groups makes them all a little bit different, which means that every game probably will have a portion of unique code. Otherwise they will probably be to generic. For example, having to calculate agenda points in a deck is something I gladly let my deckbuilder do.
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joepinion wrote:
...Since the game takes care of all the rules for you...

It would take a lot of code to handle all the rules and card interactions. And with (usually) monthly updates? Not trivial. And as popular as Netrunner is I kind of doubt they'd make their money back. If they prove me wrong, though: Great.
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I just found a good ANR deckbuilding app on iOS. It is called Net Deck. Check it out. It is free and works really well IMO.
 
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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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stevepop wrote:
joepinion wrote:
...Since the game takes care of all the rules for you...

It would take a lot of code to handle all the rules and card interactions. And with (usually) monthly updates? Not trivial. And as popular as Netrunner is I kind of doubt they'd make their money back. If they prove me wrong, though: Great.

Card interactions can be programmed. The barrier definitely is not that the rules are hard to program.
 
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joepinion wrote:
stevepop wrote:
joepinion wrote:
...Since the game takes care of all the rules for you...

It would take a lot of code to handle all the rules and card interactions. And with (usually) monthly updates? Not trivial. And as popular as Netrunner is I kind of doubt they'd make their money back. If they prove me wrong, though: Great.

Card interactions can be programmed. The barrier definitely is not that the rules are hard to program.


The rules programming is not the biggest barrier, but it's not trivial. Some of the interactions are particularly foul to account for in a generic fashion. Especially given the relatively non-robust state of the official rules.

The biggest barrier (other than the licensing ) is probably the UI. Being able to give the players sufficient expressive power is a balance between allowing them all the possible options and limiting the amount of tedious work.

For example, according to the rules, to break Archer with Mimic and Datasucker, starting at the beginning of your turn with 1 credit, the following things needs to happen:

01.P1 Click for Credit
02.P1 Pass Priority
03.P2 Pass Priority
04.P1 Click for Credit
05.P1 Pass Priority
06.P2 Pass Priority
07.P1 Click for Credit
08.P1 Pass Priority
09.P2 Pass Priority
10.P1 Start Run
11.P1 Pass Priority (pre-rez window)
12.P2 Pass Priority (pre-rez window)
(If this were not the first piece of ICE encountered, P1 would Continue here instead of Jacking Out)
13.P1 Pass Priority (rez window)
14.P2 Pass Priority (rez window - this is where he would rez Archer if it is not rezzed. Same with Corporate Troubleshooter, etc...)
15.P1 Activate Datasucker (luckily there are no targets we have to pick here)
16.P1 Activate Datasucker
17.P1 Activate Datasucker
18.P1 Activate Mimic
19.P1 Choose which credits to spend (credit pool, bad pub, recurring, etc...)
20.P1 Choose a subroutine on Archer
21.P2 Choose not to rez or activate a prevention asset (such as Tyr's hand)
22.P1 Activate Mimic
23.P1 Choose which credits to spend
24.P1 Choose a subroutine on Archer
25.P2 Choose not to rez or activate a prevention asset
26.P1 Activate Mimic
27.P1 Choose which credits to spend
28.P1 Choose a subroutine on Archer
29.P2 Choose not to rez or activate a prevention asset
30.P1 Activate Mimic
31.P1 Choose which credits to spend
32.P1 Choose a subroutine on Archer
33.P2 Choose not to rez or activate a prevention asset
34.P1 Pass Priority
35.P2 Pass Priority

Archer resolves with no subroutines and the runner passes it. Any pass and/or End of Encounter effects happen.

This is assuming no extra nonsense happens as triggers to breaking subroutines, making runs, no additional costs to activate things, etc...

A few of those can be skipped if there is only one possible credit source or if there are no unrezzed server cards, but the scenario described above is not unreasonable.

So a portion of a turn that is "Click for credits 3 times, run, use data sucker to get archer down to 3 and pay 4 to break" turns into 35 clicks (like with a mouse. Not the hex shaped icons ).

I was working on this project a bunch before taking a couple month break (I got discouraged after the C&D to NRDB) but I am messing wiht it again. I have all those rules working and running on PC, iPhone and Android with networked multiplayer, undo, save games and replays.

It would be nice if I could release it.
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Régis Hanol
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SaintVigeous wrote:
It would be nice if I could release it.


What's preventing you from releasing it? jinteki.net is still running
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SaintVigeous wrote:

The biggest barrier (other than the licensing ) is probably the UI.


This is exactly why Hearthstone exists and is killing it. It was designed from the ground up to deal with the realities of asynchronous play. It's only reactions (secrets) have predefined triggers that require no choice on the part of the opposing player.

Hero Academy is another good example of a solid digital board game implementation designed with async play in mind.

Trying to digitize games that have significant interaction on the players turn are a somewhat of a challenge.
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