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Subject: Monster pushing on blood slick: stupid questions (or not) rss

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Mark Farr
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1)
The rules state that a player may not enter a blood slick if there is another player on the square immediately on the other side of the slick (as players may not push each other). I can accept this, but the rules are not clear enough (for my aging brain anyway) for when the monster pushes a stone that has a character directly behind it that has a blood slick directly behind him, which in turn has a character on the other side.

The arrangement I have is described below. I will use square brackets "[]" to denote a square, preceded by a number that merely helps the description. If a blood slick covers more than one square, it will have multiple entries. I went for a vertical representation, so that everything fits nicely. I hope this sounds clear to you, it's difficult to express the situation like this.

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[blood slick]
5[blood slick]
6[Player character B]
7[empty]

Now, I imagine one possible solution is:

The monster pushes the stone down from square 2 onto square 3, which in turn pushes player character A onto the blood slick on square 4. Player A then slides to square 6, pushing player character B onto the empty square on square 7. In this way, the players are not pushing each other through their own free will, so it could pass.

However, I have seen mention that the stone simply crushes player characters if they cannot make a legal move in being pushed back. Is this the correct way to play this situation? It just seems wrong that a stone pushed towards you, with nothing but a blood slick behind you, manages to crush you simply because there was someone standing at the end of it.

2)
This answer I read actually in response to a question concerning the monster pushing multiple objects, as in:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[Player character B]
5[empty]

In this situation, the answer was that player character A is crushed, as he cannot push another character (player character B). Is this so?

3)
What about the following situation then:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[stone]
5[empty]

If the monster pushes the stone on square 2 to square 3, does player character A push the stone onto square 5 and occupy square 4, or is he crushed?

4)
If the player does indeed push the stone on square 4 onto square 5, what if there is a wall behind the second stone, instead of an empty space, as follows:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[stone]
5[wall]

Does the stone on square 4 leave the game, or is the player crushed and the stone on square 4 remains where it is (until the monster perhaps pushes the first stone (now on square 3) which will force stone 4 off the board.

I hope I read the rules correctly and haven't embarassed myself unduly here (although I do that very well), but I couldn't work out my own solutions to these situations that sounded fair and logical. Perhaps this game doesn't lend itself to logic, having a monster, one that walks through walls, teleporters, eaten people returning to life and such things, but one can at least try to make the rules as intuitive as possible, so as to gain acceptance by the majority of players.

Thank you for your time, I know it is a clumsy read.
 
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Mik Svellov
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Tobold wrote:
1)
The rules state that a player may not enter a blood slick if there is another player on the square immediately on the other side of the slick (as players may not push each other). I can accept this, but the rules are not clear enough (for my aging brain anyway) for when the monster pushes a stone that has a character directly behind it that has a blood slick directly behind him, which in turn has a character on the other side.

Characters will push each other. They cannot do it on their own, but the Monster is strong and will push everything!


Quote:
The arrangement I have is described below. I will use square brackets "[]" to denote a square, preceded by a number that merely helps the description. If a blood slick covers more than one square, it will have multiple entries. I went for a vertical representation, so that everything fits nicely. I hope this sounds clear to you, it's difficult to express the situation like this.

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[blood slick]
5[blood slick]
6[Player character B]
7[empty]

Now, I imagine one possible solution is:

The monster pushes the stone down from square 2 onto square 3, which in turn pushes player character A onto the blood slick on square 4. Player A then slides to square 6, pushing player character B onto the empty square on square 7. In this way, the players are not pushing each other through their own free will, so it could pass.

However, I have seen mention that the stone simply crushes player characters if they cannot make a legal move in being pushed back. Is this the correct way to play this situation? It just seems wrong that a stone pushed towards you, with nothing but a blood slick behind you, manages to crush you simply because there was someone standing at the end of it.


A character cannot push another character on his own account. If the Monster only moves one space (from 1 to 2) then the stone will move to space 3, character A slides through space 4 but stops at space 5 because character B is blocking space 6.


Quote:
2)
This answer I read actually in response to a question concerning the monster pushing multiple objects, as in:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[Player character B]
5[empty]

In this situation, the answer was that player character A is crushed, as he cannot push another character (player character B). Is this so?

No-one is ever crushed. Stones and characters will be pushed until they leave the board - at which point they are considered dead (crushed if you will).


Quote:
3)
What about the following situation then:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[stone]
5[empty]

If the monster pushes the stone on square 2 to square 3, does player character A push the stone onto square 5 and occupy square 4, or is he crushed?

Same as above. They are all pushed. Anything that leaves the board is removed from the game.

Quote:
4)
If the player does indeed push the stone on square 4 onto square 5, what if there is a wall behind the second stone, instead of an empty space, as follows:

1[Monster]
2[stone]
3[Player character A]
4[stone]
5[wall]

Does the stone on square 4 leave the game, or is the player crushed and the stone on square 4 remains where it is (until the monster perhaps pushes the first stone (now on square 3) which will force stone 4 off the board.

Yes, the stone leaves the game. Should the Monster move a second space will character A also leave the game (but reappear if removed during the first half of the game).


Quote:
I hope I read the rules correctly and haven't embarassed myself unduly here (although I do that very well), but I couldn't work out my own solutions to these situations that sounded fair and logical. Perhaps this game doesn't lend itself to logic, having a monster, one that walks through walls, teleporters, eaten people returning to life and such things, but one can at least try to make the rules as intuitive as possible, so as to gain acceptance by the majority of players.

Thank you for your time, I know it is a clumsy read.


Don't worry, the game itself takes a while to get used to.
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Mark Farr
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Thank you, Great Dane, for such comprehensive answers! That's more than I could have hoped for.

Are you the same Great Dane as the equally helpful one on the Days Of Wonder forums?

 
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Mik Svellov
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Tobold wrote:
Thank you, Great Dane, for such comprehensive answers! That's more than I could have hoped for.

Are you the same Great Dane as the equally helpful one on the Days Of Wonder forums?


Yes, I'm the one.
I was given the nickname by the New Yorker Steve (K-ban) Kurzban for my translation services of German Games since 1997.
 
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Mark Farr
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It's a clever nickname, very appropriate.

Thanks again, those answers are so concise, they should appear in the rulebook!
 
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