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David Jones
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I think I remember this being asked before, but I am unable to find the answer via search of the forums....

Next Phase has missions in the space deck that are hidden - you put them face down in your points area and complete them when you are able to. However, these cards have a flip effect of +1 explore. When does the flip effect actually happen? If the card is placed face down in your score area, you've not actually flipped it. But then you can't complete the mission on the turn you draw it. In contrast, If you use the explore immediately to continue searching the space deck, you have to show the other players that the card has a flip effect on it, at which point the mission is no longer hidden.
 
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Jacovis
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Hey Davy,

Can you reference an example of which missions you refer to? I believe you misremember how they work. Hidden missions/events become hidden after they are scored, not before.

The rules for exploring state:

Quote:
To explore, you flip over the top card of the Space Deck and proceed based on the type of card flipped


So you have to reveal the missions/events/starships as you go.

That requires you to complete them first, then they become hidden when they go to your points area.

Quote:
Some Space Deck cards will have this Hidden icon. When this card is moved to your Points Area, it is kept face-down and only you may look at it.


Cheers!
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Warren Davis
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All mission cards have a +1 explore flip effect so you can use that extra explore to accomplish that mission & add it to your score pile when you flip it if you are able to...
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David Jones
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Jacovis wrote:
Can you reference an example of which missions you refer to?


Not quickly, my sets are at home right now. I'll try to post card names later but with respect to my question I don't think it matters. The mission has a "hidden" icon and the flip effect is "you gain +1 explore". The actual mission details are not relevant to my question.

Quote:
I believe you misremember how they work. Hidden missions/events become hidden after they are scored, not before. That requires you to complete them first, then they become hidden when they go to your points area.


I suppose this makes some kind of sense than they way we've played them, but it becomes a really stupid mechanic at that point. Hey Bob, before you claim that public mission, let me write down how many points it was worth so I can tell when you're on the verge of winning.
 
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Jacovis
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davypi wrote:
Jacovis wrote:
Can you reference an example of which missions you refer to?


Not quickly, my sets are at home right now. I'll try to post card names later but with respect to my question I don't think it matters. The mission has a "hidden" icon and the flip effect is "you gain +1 explore". The actual mission details are not relevant to my question.

Quote:
I believe you misremember how they work. Hidden missions/events become hidden after they are scored, not before. That requires you to complete them first, then they become hidden when they go to your points area.


I suppose this makes some kind of sense than they way we've played them, but it becomes a really stupid mechanic at that point. Hey Bob, before you claim that public mission, let me write down how many points it was worth so I can tell when you're on the verge of winning.


The points weren't why you kept them hidden, it was the alternate win mechanics and the fact that some cards allow others to take or destroy one of your missions/points cards and you could mix them up.

I don't have the exact cards in front of me, but if you take a look through them you'll find their effects.

Even with me, however, it is still more of a sideline thing than a major change to the game.
 
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David Jones
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Jacovis wrote:
The points weren't why you kept them hidden, it was the alternate win mechanics...


This was my thought as well, but the hidden missions that came out in our game last night were not ones with alternate win conditions. I specifically looked for that when they flipped. I think part of the reason I'm getting confused is that I never pay attention to the hidden mechanic. The people I was playing with last night were not gamers and we were trying to align our understanding of the rules, so I got hit with something I don't normally worry about. I will definitely have to take some time this weekend to look at this mechanic again. (I really do wonder how much more successful this game would have been if they had simply taken the time to write a decent rulebook.)
 
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Jacovis
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It is also because here are several events and a mission maybe that let you trade items (the hidden missions become items) and take items from others. Being hidden means you can't know for sure which one you would take or trade from someone. That's really about it.

The Dan fragment is the win condition one, the stones of gol give you combat bonus the round you reveal them, and then the others I think help fill in space in case you have say a stone of gol and one of the portals, your opponent couldn't know for sure what he would get from you, etc.

I think it is a very lightly used mechanism in the game, but it is there nonetheless. All of the etchings that affect these are in the gold space deck cards.

And yeah, the rules man..... I love these games, but the damn rules!

Cheers Davy!
 
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David Jones
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Jacovis wrote:
It is also because here are several events and a mission maybe that let you trade items (the hidden missions become items) and take items from others. Being hidden means you can't know for sure which one you would take or trade from someone. That's really about it.


So now that I've had time to sit down and actually look at the relevant cards, this really is an immensely useless mechanic. As you pointed out, there are three Stone of Gol cards which give a bonus if you have all three. There are four DNA fragments which win you the game if collected. There are two other hidden items that confer no bonus. All hidden goals are "item" cards and have 50VP on them. As such, hiding them does not obscure your score in the slightest and you know a hidden card is an item.

There is exactly one event that allows you to search the space deck for an item and put it into play. There is similarly exactly one mission that allows you to swap itself for an item card in another player's goal area. So, as you pointed out, the two "other" hidden items could act as decoys for somebody trying to target a card in one of the sets. Its just that it seems so incredibly unlikely to complete either set (especially if you combine both space decks) that I just never bothered dealing with the mechanic. It seems like a lot of mechanics to add for something with less than a 1% chance of happening. I think it was a great idea for a mechanic, but it just doesn't seem like it was implemented in a way that really matters.

Anyway, thanks again for the help and clarification.
 
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Jacovis
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Fully agree. It was a potentially really interesting mechanism that failed to deliver anything meaningful, but who knows where it was going to go in the end.

Cheers!
 
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