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Subject: legal tile placement? with pictures rss

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Mario Aguila
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A.


B


Are both legal placements?
 
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Jason Birzer
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A. definitely isn't legal. The only way to make it legal is to upgrade the 8 tile.

Edit: or, point it to St. Augustine instead.

I'd say that B is probably legal, since you are going along the coast (just like going alongside a river in 1870.)

Jason
 
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Luca Iennaco
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I think that they're both allowed.
You can't place tracks leading outside the map or into blank sides of "can't-be-upgraded" hexes (usually colored red or grey), but all the rest is fine (as further upgrades can link the tracks currently not leading anywhere).
 
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
I think that they're both allowed.

That's right.
 
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Mario Aguila
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RULES:
Quote:
7.2.1
Tiles may not be placed or upgraded in such a fashion as to cause any new track to run to a prohibited hex. A prohibited hex is any impassable (medium green) hex, any ocean (light blue) hex,...


B CASE:
is that a prohibited hex? Is an ocean hex (light blue)?
The track goes to ocean...but at the end will be on the town...Hmmmm.

A CASE:
I don't see in the rules this prohibition. What about if in this turn I put this tile and in the next turn I change the 8 tile?
 
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Richard Pardoe
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marioaguila wrote:
B CASE:
is that a prohibited hex? Is an ocean hex (light blue)?


If that were a prohibited hex how would one ever build there? Or over the Florida Keys? The allowed (yellow) tiles for Towns are #3, #4, and #58. You are building one of those tiles - so perfectly legal.

If you want a more definitive answer, you might try asking at the 18XX Yahoo Mail Group (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/18xx/). David Hecht is a frequent poster there.

Looking at the game board - is any tile an "ocean hex"? I wonder if the (prototype) ocean had a hex overlay and this rule statement remained even though those hexes were removed in the final version.
 
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Mario Aguila
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RPardoe wrote:
Looking at the game board - is any tile an "ocean hex"? I wonder if the (prototype) ocean had a hex overlay and this rule statement remained even though those hexes were removed in the final version.


The only ocean hexes are those partially ocean:



So probably there is a problem with the rules...
 
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Mario Aguila
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RPardoe wrote:

If that were a prohibited hex how would one ever build there? Or over the Florida Keys? The allowed (yellow) tiles for Towns are #3, #4, and #58. You are building one of those tiles - so perfectly legal.


What about if the tile could go to ocean, but not the track inside. The A case would be OK (little track); the B case not (the track is directly against the ocean, at least, until that moment).
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Maybe the rules are trying to say that you can't build tracks leading into ocean (rather than "ocean hexes"). "Ocean hexes" would make sense if a grid was laid on the whole map (thus creating several hexes made only by water).
Are "ocean hexes" defined somewhere in the rules?
 
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Mario Aguila
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Nothing about the ocean hex. Only the sentence I have transcribed.
 
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John Tamplin
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Both tile placements are perfectly legal. The wording is incorrect about ocean hexes, as what it means is the ocean not in a hex. So, you could not place a tile such that track runs into the ocean. Hexes which contain some water are not ocean hexes, as that is only drawn that way for aesthetic reasons.
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Mario Aguila
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But in Case B the track goes to the ocean (OK, not the ocean hex)...
So "7.2.1 Tiles may not be placed or upgraded in such a fashion as to cause any new track to run to any ocean ..."
 
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For a track to run into ocean, in the sense of the rules, it must run into a hexside that lacks any land.

Think of the track not being precisely located as it is depicted on the tile, but as schematically representing a relationship between hexsides. If the hexsides connected by the track on a tile have any land on them then the track can find a path on land connecting them, and the tile placement is valid.
 
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Mario Aguila
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OK, so only this case would be forbidden:

 
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Richard Pardoe
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jtamplin wrote:
Hexes which contain some water are not ocean hexes, as that is only drawn that way for aesthetic reasons.


I have quoted the critical section from Mr. Tamplin's comments. Don't forget that Mr. Tamplin is "DeepThoughtGames", the publisher of 18FL, so I would take his comment as definitive.

The hexes in your example are not ocean hexes, so both track placements shown above are legal.

Edit - your later example is illegal for 2 reasons. First, the track runs into the ocean. Second, the town (Titusville) is not depicted on the track hex.
 
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marioaguila wrote:
OK, so only this case would be forbidden[...]

Correct. There's no way for the track running off to the right to find a sliver of land in that hexside.

jtamplin wrote:
Hexes which contain some water are not ocean hexes, as that is only drawn that way for aesthetic reasons.

This is the source of the confusion (as well as other similar common confusions with 18XX tile-placement rules): the map contains some "aesthetic" elements that depict real-world geography, but track position on tiles is purely schematic.
 
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