Robert Wesley
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Hidden within the depths of a "bill" being brought before the Senate-(the "House" already 'passed' this on) is a provision to retro-actively "pardon" ANY potential 'warcrimes' that could crop up, involving this current USA "administration".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRjbIQMXGQ

What say US?
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Dave Lartigue
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They may as well. It's not like there's anything else they can do to make me more embarrassed to be an American.
 
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Jorge Montero
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Legomancer wrote:
They may as well. It's not like there's anything else they can do to make me more embarrassed to be an American.


Bomb Switzerland?
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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The sad part is that there are so many politicians that think torture is perfectly acceptible for the US to take part in, neverminde the retro-pardon.
 
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Stan Mamula
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WTF?! It just keeps getting worse.
 
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Rick B
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The bill that passed Congress yesterday undermining civil liberties, privacy, and the right to a fair trial is bad enough...
 
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Robert Zurfluh
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Yeah, the Republicans are doing great. In an unrelated story....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/29/congressman.e.mails/i...

I wonder how long Bush & Friends would last when subjected to their torture treatment to extract information.

Anyone up for moving to New Zealand?

 
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Dave Lartigue
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Also, it runs in the family. Bush One was the one who pardoned everyone involved in Iran-Contra.

 
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Just as a foreign political observer I do think at the mid-terms the Republicans are going to get hosed.

It won't make a huge difference because the money is all gone, though I do think the Dems will repair the broken Geneva agreements discussed above.
 
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JessA
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Brian Rowe
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The Senate passed the bill.

For anyone who has not already seen it, I highly recommend "Why We Fight", directed by Eugene Jarecki--a new documentary that is very solid and well made. It's available on Netflix, if that's your brand of vodka. The full context of President Eisenhower's outgoing end-of-term public address (warning the American people to beware the rising threat from our own military-industrial complex) bookends the film to a degree.

He knew, and told all of us over fifty years ago, that this would come to pass.

--Brian

 
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Rick B
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Quote:
For anyone who has not already seen it, I highly recommend "Why We Fight", directed by Eugene Jarecki--a new documentary that is very solid and well made. It's available on Netflix, if that's your brand of vodka.


Added to my queue. Thanks, I look forward to watching it!
 
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Brian Rowe
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Cheers. Glad I could help. If you care to after viewing it, feel free to let me know how you liked the film.

puckhead wrote:
Quote:
For anyone who has not already seen it, I highly recommend "Why We Fight", directed by Eugene Jarecki--a new documentary that is very solid and well made. It's available on Netflix, if that's your brand of vodka.


Added to my queue. Thanks, I look forward to watching it!
 
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Chris Tannhauser
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Every morning I wake up and want to throw furniture. Are Americans stupid, apathetic, or brainwashed? Or paralyzed with fear?
 
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Rick B
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Quote:
Just as a foreign political observer I do think at the mid-terms the Republicans are going to get hosed.


I'm not so sure, but I hope you are right. This country seems to have taken a very conservative turn somewhere along the line. As a liberal, I can still understand and respect some conservatives and their values (McCain?), but those who hold the power right now are simply scary to me.
 
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JessA
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HiveGod wrote:
Every morning I wake up and want to throw furniture. Are Americans stupid, apathetic, or brainwashed? Or paralyzed with fear?


I said when the wiretaps were exposed that I didn't know why people weren't rioting in the streets. The complete apathy is shocking.

 
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puckhead wrote:

I'm not so sure, but I hope you are right. This country seems to have taken a very conservative turn somewhere along the line. As a liberal, I can still understand and respect some conservatives and their values (McCain?), but those who hold the power right now are simply scary to me.


Well as I watch CNN about the senior Republican busted online with a 16 year old boy I determine that to be a fairly sizable nail in the coffin.

Apparently this Rep was the chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus.

*sarcasm* Good to see our children are in such safe hands. */sarcasm*

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15063977/

 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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HiveGod wrote:
Every morning I wake up and want to throw furniture. Are Americans stupid, apathetic, or brainwashed? Or paralyzed with fear?


Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No.

Fear has nothing to do with it. We have the power to change it, but we let it happen as long as gas is < $3 a gallon, and a pair of shoes still costs $9.95 at Wal-Mart. We, the ones having this discussion, are not the problem. It's the people who don't watch the news, or are too brainwashed by their own political party (and yes, I'm talking about Democrats, too) to take action.
 
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Mike N.
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Wait a minute, guys...
God speaks to BUsh, so there's no way he's arresting and torturing any not bad guys, right? If you're so smart, what would YOU do? Hold a trial with 2 lawyers, a judge, and a jury of 12 men/women and try the criminals on actual crimes? What if they didn't do the crime? Then our president would look awfully stupid. It's much safer this way.

Also, why shouldn't we torture people? People tortured Jesus, right? If Jesus was tortured, obviously anyone should be tortured, especially bad guys or guys who might be bad. Plus, the constitution was written by Thomas Jefferson because he had been tortured by British Law! Maybe if we torture these guys - physically instead of metaphorically, because they're not very bright (Limbaugh says they wet themselves, which is not what bright people do) - anyway, if we torture them, maybe they'll be inspired to form their own democracy! And no democracy has ever killed innocent people!

if torture were bad, Jesus would have said something, right? I mean, he said abortion was wrong! (I think it's in the Book of Martin)

Finally, we're safe now! What good is liberty if you're going to die?
 
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Chief Slovenly
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Quote:
It's the people who don't watch the news, or are too brainwashed by their own political party (and yes, I'm talking about Democrats, too) to take action.


Barack Obama said something to the effect of casting shame on those Republicans who voted for the bill (most of 'em) along with those Democrats who also voted for the bill (maybe 10-15 or so) out of the quite reasonable fear of being tarred by the Rovian political machine as being soft on terror.

I don't know whether to be disgusted more by the cowardice involved in voting for this craven, useless political turd out of the hope it will be found unconstitutional later, or the destructive politics popularized by Atwater and perfected by Rove that would make people vote this way.

My take would be: you're going to be tarred as soft on terror anyway. Anything short of a gay relationship with Osama is fair game for these people. So at least do something for the good of the country while you try to ensure your incumbency.

Idiots.

I don't know: what do we do now? A million plus people protested the invasion of Iraq, and were generally characterized as dreadlocked trustafarian freaks just out to be seen -- which may or may not have been partly true, but were still dismissed out of hand. I'll be out in the streets myself if the more paranoid things I've seen bandied about come true and we start going into Iran.

Trouble is, the things I once thought were paranoid have had a nasty tendency to come true under this naked emperor.
 
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Dave Lartigue
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Thanks for the "lefty loonies" tags, Gamegrunt. Don't worry, soon enough you'll be able to have us put in re-education camps.
 
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Leo Zappa
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Enough of this so-called "republic" already. So when does the first galatic empire get to be declared? (has this already happened and I missed it?) As you can plainly see, our attack droids control the skies - enemies of democracy, beware!



Boeing X-45C UCAV in attack mode
 
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Jesse Miller
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Legomancer wrote:
Thanks for the "lefty loonies" tags, Gamegrunt. Don't worry, soon enough you'll be able to have us put in re-education camps.


Nice. Way to call the doofus out.

Sic semper tyrannus
 
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Daniel Karp
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Del_Esau wrote:
Well as I watch CNN about the senior Republican busted online with a 16 year old boy I determine that to be a fairly sizable nail in the coffin.

Apparently this Rep was the chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus.

And apparently, the Republican house leaders knew about some of the emails (although not the worst ones) almost a year ago, and swept it under the rug. Interestingly, although the House Page board was involved, the Democratic member of that board was not informed of the issue.
 
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Geoff Bohrer
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Quote:
Article 4 of the Geneva Conventions:

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

( a ) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

( b ) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;


( c ) That of carrying arms openly;

( d ) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.


Iraq isn't legally a "non-occupied territory"; it's legally an ally of the US under its current UN-recognized government.

Just for the sake of argument. A concealed IED doesn't, I think, qualify as carrying arms openly.

Source: http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/prisonerwar.htm
 
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