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Subject: Why this game is miserable and needs to be traded/sold rss

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Duane Banzon
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You ideally play it with at least 3 people (although, I think it's a valid point if the number of players actually change difficulty exponentially)

Give it another shot? It's not the most well-designed game out there, but there's an experience I find unique in it. If it doesn't really work out, then by all means, sell it. Better for you to get a new game you'll actually have fun with.
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Donny Behne
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So you played it once and you're trashing it in a review? This isn't a review - this is a gripe-fest followed by a commercial. Have you discussed why it was so difficult with people on these forums? Did you give it a chance beyond one negative experience? If you had, you'd come to realize that Sentinels is an excellent game but has a very high degree of variance. Due to multitude of characters and villains and environments, you're going to see setups ranging from cakewalk to marathon through Hell. It's the nature of the game. Did you play with only two heroes (you mention playing with your son and that you played one character)? This game is not at all balanced for two heroes. You need at minimum three (one of you plays two) and it gets easier as you use more (up to five).

I strongly recommend that you retract your statements, especially the hyperbolic and non-objective content, and either post a real review or repost this in general where you might get some feedback.
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Nerds call me
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Honestly, the Omnitron/Electro Pulse combo came out early for me too when I first started playing Sentinels and it made me feel a little helpless in my decision making. But I've since played over 100 games of Sentinels and I love it. I would recommend giving it another chance.
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William Cennamo
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Whenever we have to play with only two players we either use multiple heroes or remove the environment....feels much more fair.
 
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Rob Rob
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It's designed for 3-5 players. The only reasonable way to play with 2 is to run double handed (two heroes each). There is a good bit of luck in card draws but that luck runs each way. I've beaten tough villains in a minimum number of turns because their luck ran out so to speak. Here are some suggestions:

It takes multiple plays to grok the card combos.

Random picking villain/hero/environment combos can result in a lopsided game and lead to disaster.

Knowing villain/hero strengths and weaknesses is essential.

Having a hero who can scry a villain's card deck is helpful to avoid the disaster cards which can destroy all your hero cards or bring back all the minions from the discard pile.

Not sure which heroes you used but if you can't destroy the electro with damage in one turn there are cards which allow you to negate villain damage (Legacy) or to negate target damage (Tachyon) for a turn while you pile on the damage and/or search your deck.
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MGS
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I am sorry you had such a bad experience in your only game. I just played against Miss Information for the first time yesterday and had our butts handed to us. It felt we didn't really have a chance of winning. She looked like a formidable foe.

I played with my son. Since the game is balanced for 3-5 heroes (not to be confused with 3-5 players) and it appears optimized for 4, we played 2 heroes each. Many decks are simple to play and they make playing multiple heroes a breeze.

Instead of complaining about the game or blaming luck or other factors we that are external to us, we just celebrated the fact that you can lose at this game and discussed what we could have done better.

We think that our choice of heroes was a problem as we were not able to do much at times and we could have made better in-game choices. Thankfully, we are using this loss to improve our skill at the game.

We do play other card games such as Magic: the Gathering and we understand that sometimes your hand doesn't come or your opponent gets a nut draw and it is part of the game. You congratulate your opponent and move on to the next game.

Sentinels does not stop to amaze me. The simplicity of the rules, the way the system has been stretched in many different ways and the ability for each player to improve and play better within that system has been very rewarding as well.

Make sure to make the right decision for you and your son. Don't play a game that you think will be nothing but frustration. But, if you look around the wealth of good advice, I know that there great people here to help set you and your son up for success and a great, fun experience.
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Chris
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I agree with all the responders above. I'm sorry your first experience wasn't fantastic, but suggest giving it another go - use another villain (Baron Blade) for a different experience.

I love Sentinels - it is the most played game in my collection. Yes it can be swingy, but if it wasn't, and was the same experience every time, it wouldn't be anywhere near as fun.

In my experience, the number of games that are truly swung against you are very small - unfortunately, a first turn Electron Pulse Explosive is on of these. Double EPE is even worse. This happened to us once, and we re-shuffled and started again.
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Duncan Idaho
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kelann08 wrote:
If you had, you'd come to realize that Sentinels is an excellent game but has a very high degree of variance.


I'd disagree with that ;-).

There are some games that can lead to situations that are so negative, you'd never want to play them again, even if the chances of that happening are relatively low. Not saying that's going on in SotM*, but it can happen, and so reviews based on one terrible experience are, to some extent, useful.

This is most definitely a review. The points about 2-player being a generally bad experience are much more useful than calling it a gripe-fest.

*In fact, I rate it low because I find it to be both too easy and too simplistic.
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Bradford Lounsberry
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The game rules specify that it is made for 3-5 heroes. Complaining that the game is too hard when using 2 heroes does not make for a good review. But whatever, it is his game and his experience. Let him vent I suppose.
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Donny Behne
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Idaho11 wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
If you had, you'd come to realize that Sentinels is an excellent game but has a very high degree of variance.


I'd disagree with that ;-).

There are some games that can lead to situations that are so negative, you'd never want to play them again, even if the chances of that happening are relatively low. Not saying that's going on in SotM*, but it can happen, and so reviews based on one terrible experience are, to some extent, useful.

This is most definitely a review. The points about 2-player being a generally bad experience are much more useful than calling it a gripe-fest.

*In fact, I rate it low because I find it to be both too easy and too simplistic.


As above, it's explicitly stated that it is not designed for play with two heroes. You can't criticize a game for being poor in an unsupported play mode. It's like complaining that the cards for 7 Wonders get ruined because you tried to play it in the pool.

Then we have different ideas of what makes a review, Duncan.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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I have played this with 2 and each player handles 2 heroes each.

This game does give you a tough time from the get go. However it IS very beatable and much depends on the hero combinations you use as well as the villain you fight against.

In essence, the OP gave the game an unfair shake and should at least play the game correctly.
 
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slimo wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
So you played it once and you're trashing it in a review? This isn't a review - this is a gripe-fest followed by a commercial. Have you discussed why it was so difficult with people on these forums? Did you give it a chance beyond one negative experience? If you had, you'd come to realize that Sentinels is an excellent game but has a very high degree of variance. Due to multitude of characters and villains and environments, you're going to see setups ranging from cakewalk to marathon through Hell. It's the nature of the game. Did you play with only two heroes (you mention playing with your son and that you played one character)? This game is not at all balanced for two heroes. You need at minimum three (one of you plays two) and it gets easier as you use more (up to five).

I strongly recommend that you retract your statements, especially the hyperbolic and non-objective content, and either post a real review or repost this in general where you might get some feedback.


Wow.

So I couldn't see anywhere that I mentioned it was my first play. Just one of many attempts at trying to get into a game that I had high hopes for.

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!

If it has come to the fact that a review cannot be a negative opinion of someone's experiences with a game then honestly what is the point?


Don't you think you may be exaggerating on the shock and awe effect? Don't you think that as bad as your single play was, your conclusion might be a bit over the top? Why concentrate on the comment that may have been as inflamed as the review was when there are others perfectly balanced ones?

It is important that you share your view and it is also as important that other people with similar or opposite experience give their perspectives as well in case this is the only review an interested person reads The same way we support you getting rid of a game you don't see yourself having fun with, we don't want you or anyone else to miss to on a great game that they would otherwise enjoy.
 
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Ben MacFarlane
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slimo wrote:

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!


The problem is not that the game isn't balanced for 2 players. It's that the game was not designed to be played with fewer than 3 heroes. You should be playing with at least 3 heroes, even if it means one or both people are playing multiple heroes.
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J Sinnett
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slimo wrote:
If it has come to the fact that a review cannot be a negative opinion of someone's experiences with a game then honestly what is the point?


I think the problem that's coming up here is that what you're calling a review looks much more like a partial session report. You didn't give a lot of information to work with, so it's completely understandable that people might read it like you played a single game with only two heroes (which the rules explicitly suggest you shouldn't do at all). You didn't say anything about how many times you played the game, just that you had a bad experience with a villain that honestly gives veteran players trouble sometimes.

Now, that said (spoken as someone with a significant amount of playtime poured into this game), I do find the two-heroes thing to be a quite valid complaint. Mechanically, I can see why they advise against it, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue. It's something that they really need to find a way of addressing beyond asking players to run multiple heroes. There's a few alternate house-rule variants to fix it, but they almost invariably require that the game's owner have multiple expansions.

This is one of the very, *very* few games that I'd give a 10 by the rating guidelines on this site. But that system isn't 'best game ever ever ever', it's 'will play any time the chance arises'. I'm more than able to acknowledge that there are issues with the game, and it's absolutely not for everyone.

It's unfortunate that you had such a poor experience with the game, slimo, and doubly so that so many people on this forum go on the defensive when anyone posts anything negative about their favorite games shake but I do hope that if Sentinels isn't for you, you can find someone to take it off your hands and help you turn that experience into a step toward finding a game that fits your needs and preferences better.
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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bmacfarlane wrote:
slimo wrote:

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!


The problem is not that the game isn't balanced for 2 players. It's that the game was not designed to be played with fewer than 3 heroes. You should be playing with at least 3 heroes, even if it means one or both people are playing multiple heroes.


It is like saying Love Letter is a terrible game because it isn't balanced for solo play. Just a nonsensical complaint.
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Donny Behne
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slimo wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
So you played it once and you're trashing it in a review? This isn't a review - this is a gripe-fest followed by a commercial. Have you discussed why it was so difficult with people on these forums? Did you give it a chance beyond one negative experience? If you had, you'd come to realize that Sentinels is an excellent game but has a very high degree of variance. Due to multitude of characters and villains and environments, you're going to see setups ranging from cakewalk to marathon through Hell. It's the nature of the game. Did you play with only two heroes (you mention playing with your son and that you played one character)? This game is not at all balanced for two heroes. You need at minimum three (one of you plays two) and it gets easier as you use more (up to five).

I strongly recommend that you retract your statements, especially the hyperbolic and non-objective content, and either post a real review or repost this in general where you might get some feedback.


Wow.

So I couldn't see anywhere that I mentioned it was my first play. Just one of many attempts at trying to get into a game that I had high hopes for.

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!

If it has come to the fact that a review cannot be a negative opinion of someone's experiences with a game then honestly what is the point?


You explain you got the game, describe a play of it, then trash it. Read your post again - it reads like you played it once. The description you gave is an outlier to many other peoples' experiences so that you could have played it a decent number of times and every single time was a kick in the pants is a probability that strains credulity.

Did I say it isn't balanced for two players? Nope. I explicitly said:

Kelann08 wrote:
Did you play with only two heroes (you mention playing with your son and that you played one character)? This game is not at all balanced for two heroes. You need at minimum three (one of you plays two) and it gets easier as you use more (up to five).


The rulebook tells you to play with three heroes. If you play two people, one of you needs to play two heroes. Read the entire paragraph before you fly off without any understanding of what was said.

I also didn't say you can't be negative. I told you to strive to be objective. You're welcome to not like something. But when your "review" is chock fill of hyperbole and a misunderstanding of the way it's designed, you're going to catch flack. Do it right or skip it entirely.

slimo wrote:
bmacfarlane wrote:
slimo wrote:

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!


The problem is not that the game isn't balanced for 2 players. It's that the game was not designed to be played with fewer than 3 heroes. You should be playing with at least 3 heroes, even if it means one or both people are playing multiple heroes.


When the game's BGG page says 1-5 players and recommended with 2, 3, 4, 5 do you think it is realistic to expect a decent 2 player experience?


Are you not following the language here?

Player: the human being playing the game

Hero: the characters in the game played by players.

You CAN play with 1 to 5 - I've done it with all of those numbers. But if you play with fewer than three players someone is going to have to use more than one hero. The game is fine with two players. Good, even. But you have to adjust the number of heroes you use per player.
 
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Brian C
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slimo wrote:
When the game's BGG page says 1-5 players and recommended with 2, 3, 4, 5 do you think it is realistic to expect a decent 2 player experience?


It's great for 2 players. You just need to handle 2 heroes each.

Edit: and I play it solo all the time, running all 3 Heroes.
 
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Simon Quinn
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So I am not trying to start a flame war, just wanted to reply to what I felt were pretty unfair comments.

I am not going to reply to this post again, and probably not post any more negative reviews.

Thanks for all the feedback and take care!
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Donny Behne
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slimo wrote:
HikariStarshine wrote:
slimo wrote:
If it has come to the fact that a review cannot be a negative opinion of someone's experiences with a game then honestly what is the point?


I think the problem that's coming up here is that what you're calling a review looks much more like a partial session report. You didn't give a lot of information to work with, so it's completely understandable that people might read it like you played a single game with only two heroes (which the rules explicitly suggest you shouldn't do at all). You didn't say anything about how many times you played the game, just that you had a bad experience with a villain that honestly gives veteran players trouble sometimes.


It is clear to me that the problem was that I expressed a negative opinion on a game that is widely liked. I tried to write it in a format that a) showed my frustration with a game I wanted to like, and b) was slightly different and captured people's attention. I have succeeded at b).

But let's be honest, who would care to regularly check the forums of a game? Fans of that game. So when a negative opinion comes up people are quick to dismiss the OP's experience (you played with the wrong number of players, haven't played enough games - sorry, what is the correct amount to play before an opinion can be expressed?) rather than say "stink, sorry you had a bad experience and maybe this game isn't for you. How about trying such and such a game?"

Granted some people did that (thanks to those) but when the comment with an overwhelming number of likes is to "strongly recommend that you retract your statements" that is pretty unfortunate.


A) You played the wrong number of HEROES. Not players. See above.

B) Your "review" was just attacking the game. Not the same thing.

C) You did things wrong in your playthrough(s) that have created a false understanding of the way the game plays. If you had come here with several sessions of 3-5 HEROES (not the same as players) and still felt frustration, it would have been a non-issue. If you had voiced those feelings in a way that didn't sound like some kid left a flaming bag of feces on your porch and you stepped in it, I wouldn't have even clicked on the subscription telling me it was there.

I write reviews. I often write reviews of games I like, rarely ones I don't like, but if I did, I'd at least have the decency to do so objectively and not petulantly. I take issue with people who don't share the same view.
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slimo wrote:
bmacfarlane wrote:
slimo wrote:

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!


The problem is not that the game isn't balanced for 2 players. It's that the game was not designed to be played with fewer than 3 heroes. You should be playing with at least 3 heroes, even if it means one or both people are playing multiple heroes.


When the game's BGG page says 1-5 players and recommended with 2, 3, 4, 5 do you think it is realistic to expect a decent 2 player experience?


You are confusing 2 players with 2 heroes. I only play this game as 2-player. But, I never play with only 2 heroes. It is written everywhere in the rulebook, 3-5 not 2-5 or 1-5. To illustrate, the app only lets you choose 3-5 heroes - not that you need to know that from the app but from the rule book.

Two-player - awesome game. Two heroes - not designed or balanced for that.

This is a game that rewards experience, no question. Knowing the deck you are playing with is a tremendous advantage, knowing the cards you are hunting and hoping for greatly increases the strategic depth.

Your experience against Omnitron of all villains, is most certainly an outlier. I haven't played every expansion villain and some of the level 4 may very well be punishing. Omnitron, almost every game I feel I have time to build against him and take or be in control.

The game is well designed but experience, awareness and engagement with the gameplay help a great deal.
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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slimo wrote:
bmacfarlane wrote:
slimo wrote:

Not at all balanced for 2 players? Sounds like a fantastic product and well worth the high ratings it somehow gets!


The problem is not that the game isn't balanced for 2 players. It's that the game was not designed to be played with fewer than 3 heroes. You should be playing with at least 3 heroes, even if it means one or both people are playing multiple heroes.


When the game's BGG page says 1-5 players and recommended with 2, 3, 4, 5 do you think it is realistic to expect a decent 2 player experience?


It provides a great 2 player experience if you do what the rulebook tells you to do. If you don't you are going to have a bad time as evident in the OP's "review".
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Yep..
 
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freddieyu wrote:
Yep..


Yes, real mature... shake
 
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Dr Who
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who let this in as a review?
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Nerds call me
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DrWhoWho wrote:
who let this in as a review?


The review faeries. They must be stopped.
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