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Subject: 2 Player Mayfair Edition Question. rss

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Don Sullivan
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Are these two sentences from the rules contradicting each other?

1. At the end of a turn you must have more free actions on your control mat than mutton buttons on the extra control mat.

2. You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than on your control mat.

Following number 2 you would have to play all your extra mat buttons before you could play on your control mat.
 
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John Earles
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2. You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than on your control mat.

Quote:
Following number 2 you would have to play all your extra mat buttons before you could play on your control mat.


I don't think that is correct. You start the game with 5 extra buttons, so it would only take 2 turns to eliminate the 2nd rule constraint. By turn #3, you have 3 buttons on the extra mat and will have just playd your third action button.

-------------------------------------
| Control Mat | Extra Mat |
|-------------------------------------|
| Free actions | Buttons | Buttons |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 12 | 0 | 5 | (Game Start}
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 11 | 1 | 4 | Rule #2 Mandatory Extra Mat Play
| 10 | 2 | 3 |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 9 | 3 | 3 |
| 8 | 4 | 3 |
| 7 | 5 | 3 | Optional Extra Mat Play
| 6 | 6 | 3 |
| 5 | 7 | 3 |
| 4 | 8 | 3 |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 3 | 9 | 2 |
| 2 | 10 | 1 | Rule #1 Mandatory Extra Mat Play
| 1 | 11 | 0 |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 0 | 12 | 0 | (Game End}
-------------------------------------


Did that make any sense?

I could be overanalyzing or misinterpreting things. Maybe they just left out the words free actions from Rule #2. But then the rules would seem to be redundant.

Edit: Editted to correct a copy & paste mistake around "section 3"
 
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Don Sullivan
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Thanks John for the reply. I see your point completely. I've noticed under BGGs Variants that "Fragors 2 Player variant: Beta version" states,

"A player must not be left with less free actions on their control mat than buttons on the extra control mat by the end of their turn. i.e. at the end of the round, actions left must always be more than or equal to unused mutton buttons on the extra control mat". Period.

I would assume that this is the rule that is meant to be played. It mentions nothing about when you must play your extra mat buttons. It seems so much less convoluted.
 
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J. Romano
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jearles wrote:

-------------------------------------
| Control Mat | Extra Mat |
|-------------------------------------|
| Free actions | Buttons | Buttons |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 2 | 10 | 2 |
| 1 | 11 | 1 |
| 0 | 12 | 0 |
|--------------|---------|------------|


I'm unclear about those lines above (where if you have X free actions, you must have at most X buttons left on the extra mat).

Doesn't it contradict rule 1?

Quote:
1. At the end of a turn you must have more free actions on your control mat than mutton buttons on the extra control mat.

I would think that the bottom three lines of your chart should look like this instead:

+-------------------------------------+
| Control Mat | Extra Mat |
|-------------------------------------|
| Free actions | Buttons | Buttons |
|--------------|---------|------------|
| 2 | 10 | 1 |
| 1 | 11 | 0 |
| 0 | 12 | X (0) |
+-------------------------------------+


Also, about rule 2:

Quote:
2. You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than on your control mat.

All rule 2 is saying is that you must use a mutton button (from the extra mat) on your first three turns. Am I correct?
 
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Ubergeek
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Quote:
You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than on your control mat.

After reading the explanation above and reviewing the rules again, I have to agree that you are only required to use a mutton button on your first and second turn.

The sequence of action is
A: Choose the action and execute it and cover it with a mutton button.

So on your 3rd turn, you will have placed your 3rd mutton button before executing step C*. Since the number of your buttons on the extra board and your control board are equal, you are not required to use a mutton button.
 
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Gary Heidenreich
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Just purchased the game and played 2-player the first time. I think rule #2 is missing a word.

1. At the end of a turn you must have more free actions on your control mat than mutton buttons on the extra control mat.

2. You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than free actions on your control mat. (text in red is my addition)

What this did was it allowed us to use the mat, and the number of spaces, in a strategic manner. If you wait too long to use them, you are either forced to push the game along faster, or if I remember correctly, lose two points for each button left. With the penality for not using the extra board to move along the timer, it just seemed like how we read the rule made sense.

Also, it keeps the two rules consistent by counting Free Actions.
 
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John Earles
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I was still curious about whether the words 'free actions' were unintentially missing from the second sentence (as I hypothesized in my initial reply).

Gary (bop517) also agreed with this and gave color coding to make the point obvious:
Quote:
2. You must use a mutton button whenever you would have more buttons on your extra mat than free actions on your control mat. (text in red is my addition)

I sent a quick email to Gordon Lamont (diceman here on The Geek) and he was kind enough to reply despite his busyness in preparing for Essen:
Quote:
I do not think Mayfair intended any major deviation from our 2 player rules (as posted on the geek). The post which talks about the words "free actions" being missing seems to make the most sense. We never intended to force a player to have to play buttons at the start. There is mention of our rules in the thread. This is how the game was intended to be played by Mayfair.

So we can all rest assured that no other rules were intended and that "extra board" moves are only meant to be forced by the number of free actions on your control mat.

Don (upstartcrow) you got it right when you looked at the posted "beta" rules. Play remains the same as noted in these rules.

Thanks Gordon! Have a great Essen!!
 
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