Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Fleet Commander: Nimitz» Forums » Rules

Subject: Scouting before Japanese orders and single Japanese units rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tom Chick
United States
Tujunga
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
In the rules, before beginning the Japanese order phase, you place a Moved token on any single infantry or land-based aircraft so that it won't abandon its post. Makes sense.

But shouldn't you do that before the scouting phase instead? Right now, according to the rules as written, single infantry and land-based aircraft are eligible for orders during the scouting phase. I presume that's not the intent?

-Tom
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since the rules specify "groups of Japanese Ships" for Scouting, that seems to be the intent (but then the rules later say "Enemy Forces", huh?).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Chick
United States
Tujunga
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Steve Carey wrote:
Since the rules specify "groups of Japanese Ships" for Scouting, that seems to be the intent (but then the rules later say "Enemy Forces", huh?).


That first interpretation implies that infantry and land-based aircraft won't move during scouting! I find it hard to believe that was the intent. I think the more likely explanation is that it was an oversight in turn order and that Dan intended that we should place the "Moved" markers prior to scouting.

-Tom
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is confusing - maybe I'm reading too much into it but Scouting seems to also represent code-breaking (e.g., the U.S. reading Japanese naval cipher).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Chick
United States
Tujunga
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Steve Carey wrote:
It is confusing - maybe I'm reading too much into it but Scouting seems to also represent code-breaking (e.g., the U.S. reading Japanese naval cipher).


Oh, absolutely. I love the basic mechanic, but I don't think it should change the rules for how the AI moves Japanese forces. In other words, I don't think it should mean the last occupying force on an island (infantry or land-based aircraft) should abandon it. But right now, playing the rules as written, that's exactly what will happen.

Hopefully, Dan will weigh in.

-Tom
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason C
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a video on dan's you tube channel that explains the move order and how it works
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gary Logs
United States
Wilmington
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've found the way DVG writes rules is more of a dialogue and that you have to digest the package vs extracting subtext.

The Scout section includes "Use the standard Movement rules to Move the Japanese Forces during the Scouting step." Also the lead-in says that it is intended to reveal Japanese movement of the area before the US moves.

Overall, I think that means if you scout an area that won't be able to move by normal rules you are wasting the scout, the moved marker is nothing more than an administrative tool to the standard Orders process. So I see nothing new is intended in the Scout phase.
1 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ncree wrote:
I've found the way DVG writes rules is more of a dialogue and that you have to digest the package vs extracting subtext.


That's a good observation, Gary - your interpretation seems reasonable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Verssen
United States
Glendora
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmb
Tom - Scouting a single troop or aircraft can be done, but would be a waste. This is because the normal movement rules apply to them. In this case, those forces cannot move so you wouldn't roll an Order for them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Chick
United States
Tujunga
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
DanVerssen wrote:
Tom - Scouting a single troop or aircraft can be done, but would be a waste. This is because the normal movement rules apply to them. In this case, those forces cannot move so you wouldn't roll an Order for them.


Dan, it wouldn't be a waste if the single troop or aircraft was with a huge stack of ships. As is the case in, say, the Caroline Islands at the start of the 1942 scenario. I might want to know where those ships are going before I commit to moving my forces, which is how I realized there was nothing in the rules that would keep that lone Japanese infantry on the Caroline Islands.

But it sounds like you're saying that the Moved counters should be placed before the scouting step. Which is good enough for me. I just wanted to verify. You might want to consider including that in some sort of FAQ or errata.

Cheers,

-Tom
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Carey
United States
West Coast
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TomChick wrote:
... which is how I realized there was nothing in the rules that would keep that lone Japanese infantry on the Caroline Islands.


I think the last sentence on pg. 9 covers that, "The last Japanese Infantry or Land-Based Aircraft in an Area will not move out of the Area, regardless of the Order rolled."

The subsequent example reinforces that premise, also.

Another question, let's say there is a Japanese infantry and an LBA in an Area, and 1 is to be moved out - either the infantry or LBA has to stay, so is there a priority (infantry is before LBA on the chart) or can the U.S. player choose?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Chick
United States
Tujunga
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Steve Carey wrote:
I think the last sentence on pg. 9 covers that, "The last Japanese Infantry or Land-Based Aircraft in an Area will not move out of the Area, regardless of the Order rolled."


Ah, good catch. Still, everything would be much smoother if you simply specified that the initial "Moved" markers get placed before the scouting phase. Dan's intent is clear, but the bookkeeping assist could be cleaner.

Steve Carey wrote:
Another question, let's say there is a Japanese infantry and an LBA in an Area, and 1 is to be moved out - either the infantry or LBA has to stay, so is there a priority (infantry is before LBA on the chart) or can the U.S. player choose?


That's definitely covered in the rules. First infantry move out, then land-based aircraft.

-Tom
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Verssen
United States
Glendora
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmb
Tom - You're right, in the case that a single Infantry is present in an area with Ships, Scouting would be useful. You know the Infantry won't move, but knowing what the Ship's are going to do might be helpful.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugh Grotius
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a related question. In my game, there's a lone Japanese infantry on Wake Island. I scouted a different area, and the scouted units (including two infantry) moved to Wake. I did not scout Wake itself.

Now it's the start of the regular Japanese movement phase. The rules say: "Start the Orders step by placing a 'Moved' counter on each Area that has only 1 Japanese Infantry or Land-Based Aircraft." There are now 3 infantry at Wake, two of which are on transports with an "In Transit" (soon to be "Moved") counter on them, and one of which is the infantry that started the turn alone on Wake. That lone infantry does not have a Moved counter on it.

So do I put a Moved counter on that last infantry, or do I now need to roll for its orders, since it's no longer the last infantry?

(It matters a fair bit, since the Empire has suddenly decided to invade Midway, and it would not be welcome if this unit from Wake suddenly decided to join the fray!)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Kossits
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The units on transports are not at the area yet. So yes, you would maintain the garrison at Wake and place a moved marker. The AI does not want to leave areas ungarrisoned.

Worth keeping in mind the opposite situation as well. You have a single air unit at Hawaii and decide you would like to move it to Midway instead and to fill in the gap you send up a Battalion in transports from the West Coast. Control of Hawaii goes red the second the air unit leaves and won't go blue again until the battalion lands.

Rules reference - In Japanese Orders right at the end of the first paragraph - "These forces cannot move even if additional Japanese forces move into their area". Looks like there's a rules omission to cover the case of a Scout In Transit move, but the intention is still clear.


Grotius wrote:

So do I put a Moved counter on that last infantry, or do I now need to roll for its orders, since it's no longer the last infantry?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugh Grotius
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, many thanks for your reply, Peter. That clears it up. Your explanation makes perfect sense.

I hadn't thought of the reciprocal case you mentioned -- even temporarily stripping Hawaii of its last defender will flip it to the red, until the new unit lands. I came close to doing just that this turn, as I rushed to reinforce Midway.

Thanks again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.