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Subject: Ranking of the 8 Super Rares? rss

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Henry Ho
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Please post your ranking of the 8 Super Rares, in term of power/usefulness/popularity/etc. I haven't gotten into this game much, so I'm interested to know what to watch out for when my opponents pull out the Super Rares...as well as it will be interesting to see the true-gamer's view on these 8 cards.

Thanks in advance!
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Dan Briand
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Great Question. Looking forward to som of the answers to this because I only own 2 of the SR cards (Emma Frost: Hellfire Club & Scarlet Witch: Controls Probability).
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Gobby tops my list, closely followed by Tsarina. Largely because I've found Gobby more fun to play with and against. He can be countered, but the counters tend to open the game up a bit more; Tsarina, when in play, tends to feel more mechanical and less fun.

After that, the rest are probably more evenly matched with each other and when set against other cards in their sets. It's a shame that Gobby and Tsarina are both (i) overpowered, and (ii) so rare, because it still feels like it distorts the playing environment in favour of people who have them (largely by spending the most money). The original CCG version of Netrunner handled rarity reasonably well - the idea being to have the rare cards do cool things, but make them *very* situational; what every deck needed to include were a whole bunch of commons. But that doesn't sell as much product.

Was it any coincidence that in the small tournament I played in yesterday the first- and second-placed teams each included Gobby? And the third-place team had Tsarina? I thought about fielding both, but realised that I probably couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did that.
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Brook Gentlestream
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nighthawk326 wrote:
Please post your ranking of the 8 Super Rares, in term of power/usefulness/popularity/etc. I haven't gotten into this game much, so I'm interested to know what to watch out for when my opponents pull out the Super Rares...as well as it will be interesting to see the true-gamer's view on these 8 cards.

Thanks in advance!


Technically, my list would be like this...


1. Black Widow "Tsarina"
2. Green Goblin "Gobby"
3. Scarlet Witch "Controls Probability"
4. Iron Man "Industrialist"
5. Wolverine "Canucklehead"
6. Emma Frost "Hellfire Club"
7. Spider-Man "Superhero"
8. Mr Fantastic "Elastic"


But I think it's more realistic to describe it like this...

1. Black Widow "Tsarina"
2. Green Goblin "Gobby"
3. Scarlet Witch "Controls Probability"
4. Everybody else
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Dan Briand
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I drafted Scarlet Witch on my team when I played at lunch today and it doesn't surprise me that he card is pretty high up there in the rankings.

She has decent Stats with a low fielding cost and her purchase cost is affordable failry early in the game (she was actually the first Die I purchased)

Those points are important as her character ability doesn't grant any kind of attack or defense boost except to offer you a greater chance at achieveing the dice roll or combination of dice rolls that you need to move forward with any given strategy. That extra re-roll comes in handy more often than not.

Plus, it always feels good to have a character card ability that you can use fairly often. That's why I love the "When fielded" and "While active" character abilities.

I'm digressing a little, but I had:

Scarlet Witch: Controls Probability
Quicksilver: Thanks to Isotope-E
Green Goblin: Goblin-Lord
Iceman: Too Cool for Words

There was a danger in having all Bolt characters, but it does make it easier/faster to roll the dice needed to buy any of the dice. Especially with Iceman's Global being available.


All in all, the team worked well (I don't have a lot of experience playing, so I'm still discovering many of the characters cards), but it was Scarlet Witch that came in handy the most. She was the glue to the team and helped me carry out a strategy with the rest of the dice.
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Justin Gould
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.../-1 Green Goblin
1[
...\-2 Black Widow

.../-3 Scarlet Witch
2[
...\-4 Iron Man

3[- 5 Wolverine

.../-6 Mr. Fantastic
4[ 7 Spider-Man
...\-8 Emma Frost

I think one can make a good argument over that 1-2 and 3-4 can flip pending on the build. GG and BW are both really strong. SW tends to be more of a utility and can find her way into more builds that IM but IM can do some really cool stuff if you build around it. Wolverine is strong but not game changing. The 6-8 are just bad (my opinion). Emma take 8th just b/c her ability is so narrow and focused. 6th and 7th was decided b/c the heroic ability is so hard to get off sometimes - making Mr. fantastic 6th just b/c he is not as bad as the other two by default, but still bad (in terms of SR's)

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Nick
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This thread makes me sad. Because I agree with the Gobby-Widow-Witch-Iron-Wolverine-Fantastic-Spider-Emma randing. And because I've pulled four SRs: Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, Spider-man and Emma Frost. Just once I'd like one of the better ones in a set.
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Scott Hill
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Overall, irrespective of team, I'd go:

1. Black Widow "Tsarina"
2. Green Goblin "Gobby"
3. Wolverine "Canucklehead"
4. Iron Man "Industrialist"
5. Scarlet Witch "Controls Probability"
6. Mr Fantastic "Elastic"
7. Emma Frost "Hellfire Club"
8. Spider-Man "Superhero"

But, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, change positions for me depending on the team.
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I added a poll too. Let's see if we can get lots of data.

Poll
Please rank the Super Rares from both AvX and UXM Dice Masters sets.
  Strong Above Average Average Below Average Weak
Black Widow 'Tsarina'
Emma Frost 'Hellfire Club'
Green Goblin 'Gobby'
Iron Man 'Industrialist'
Mr. Fantastic 'Elastic'
Scarlet Witch 'Controls Probability'
Spider-Man 'Superhero'
Wolverine 'Canucklehead'
      71 answers
Poll created by crambaza
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Brandon M
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“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
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http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1157/avx129-tsarina.jpg?round...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1132/avx130-gobby.jpg?rounded...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1145/avx132-canucklehead.jpg?...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1158/avx131-elastic.jpg?round...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1458/uxm123-hellfireclub.jpg?...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1454/uxm126-superhero.jpg?rou...|bgcolor-fff
http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1460/uxm124-industrialist.jpg...|bgcolor-fff
]http://dicemastersdb.com/media/1474/uxm125-controlsprobabili...|bgcolor-fff

EDIT: These external images are showing up HUGE!! Links so that this post doesn't break the thread.
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Satan Himself
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1. Gobby
2. Tsarina
3. The rest, and they don't matter.
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Ryan King
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I cant get my Gobby off the ground with Hulk and others coming out so early. Tsarina's power still auto-works
 
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Tsarina is so so so so easy to counter it is almost stupid how she is still so widely used. Bring on Tsarina, woopdi freaking doo!
 
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Nicholas P.
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Elastic is a very unique character that I think is more usable than people give it credit for...

In a game where keeping your bag slim is increasingly important, he is the dream blocker. Two blockers for one die is awesome and since he KO's himself by blocking two things, you get to reroll him to get him back to level 2/3 again. The mask energy are really valuable as well. Elastic is definitely better than Emma Frost and Iron Man.
 
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Elastic is not really that good. He is an energy pit and he doesnt come with the global either.
 
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Jim P
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I see plenty of builds running the common Falcon or Ant-Man - a 2-cost fist character with no power whatsoever, just to get the double-energy for buying more expensive dice.

Compared to this, Tsarina is just broken - yes there ARE counters now, but for a 2-cost character, she can easily do serve damage to you on turn 3 or 4 - probably well ahead of you getting out your counter-measure.

Gobby is also powerful, but not as broken as Tsarina.

Most of the others are fairly ordinary. Wolverine is particularly useless, as any kind of forced attack ability can completely nullify his "attacks alone" condition, and even if he does attack alone, he'll just get sent back with distraction.
 
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Joseph Pilz
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Now what about the YuGiOh Super Rares? I haven't really played with or against those yet, so I wonder how they fit in.
 
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Jared Wood
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Mightyjim wrote:
I see plenty of builds running the common Falcon or Ant-Man - a 2-cost fist character with no power whatsoever, just to get the double-energy for buying more expensive dice.

Compared to this, Tsarina is just broken - yes there ARE counters now, but for a 2-cost character, she can easily do serve damage to you on turn 3 or 4 - probably well ahead of you getting out your counter-measure.

She's really powerful, but there are so many answers to her that if a pure Tsarina rush kills you, you should be able to fit an answer into your build.

Beast - Genetic Expert is still the great counter that he always was. Yes, if your opponent goes first they gain the initiative, but over time Beast will end up winning the game against a Tsarina rush.

Cerebro - Supercomputer makes her almost worthless. At 2 energy to field, it slows your opponent down too much to field her and makes it easy to stabilize.

Toad - Tongue Lashing forces her to attack (which she wants to do anyway) but also deals two damage to all attackers - KOing her in most situations. Sure, she gets her ability to activate, but since she's not trading with any blockers, you'll eventually gain enough advantage to overcome her.

There are also others, but I've used all 3 of the above to great effect against Tsarina. She's great, but not broken.

JoeMPilz wrote:
Now what about the YuGiOh Super Rares? I haven't really played with or against those yet, so I wonder how they fit in.

Using the results from crambaza's poll above, I've ranked the existing 8 SRs in order. I've inserted where I feel the YGO SRs should place among them, although this is without playing any of them.

1. Green Goblin - 'Gobby'
2. Black Widow - Tsarina
*. Thousand Dragon - Noxious Vapor Gust
3. Scarlet Witch - Controls Probability
*. Obelisk the Tormentor - Intimidator
*. Slifer the Sky Dragon - Thunderforce Attack
4. Iron Man - Industrialist
5. Wolverine - Canucklehead
6. Emma Frost - Hellfire Club
7. Mr. Fantastic - Elastic
*. The Winged Dragon of Ra - Blaze Cannon
8. Spider-Man - Superhero

dicemastersdb.com has all of the YGO cards, including SRs, if anyone is unfamiliar with their card text.

Thousand Dragon is easily the best SR of this set. His fusion ability is really potent - being able to turn two earlier purchases into a free six-cost purchase. His statline isn't mind-boggling like the Egyptian Gods, but he has such a cheap fielding cost that it doesn't matter. On top of that, he sends opposing monsters that are KO'd the turn he is summoned to the Used pile. While I don't know how effective this is in pure YGO DM play (not to mention cross-set play), in theory this card seems to gain you a ton of tempo and continue to keep it going. This card should win games with that tempo swinging ability of his.

Obelisk and Slifer are hard to evaluate because of their high purchase costs. However, because of the global on Blue Eyes White Dragon being able to reduce purchase costs, I think they become more feasible (since it doesn't require 8 energy on a single turn, like it has for AVX and UXM).

Obelisk gets the nod because he will inevitably kill your opponent. If they have a clear removal for him, then he didn't make much of an impact. But if they don't, your opponent will reach a point where they can't afford to summon monsters anymore - even sidekicks are a liability. He'll either get your opponent to stop playing blockers or ping themselves to death by fielding characters.

Slifer's effect is great - sidekicks cost 3 energy to summon and he KOs all of your opponent's sidekicks the turn he is summoned. Combined with his statline, that's a pretty big issue for your opponent to deal with. However, his global is what puts him over the top and pushes him up the rankings. For one bolt, you can move a sidekick from prep to your used pile to deal one damage to your opponent. I could see a team custom-built around PXG and Slifer's globals working in tandem to just ping your opponent to death while shuffling sidekicks back and forth.

Ra is the dud of this set - he spins everyone else down, including your other characters that aren't also Egyptian Gods. That's it. No removal, no damage to your opponent, nothing. I like him better than Spider-Man's SR because his ability isn't dependent on anything and he has great stats for that purchase cost - but its not enough to push him above the superblocker that is Mr. Fantastic or potential impact of Wolverine or Emma Frost.

Of course, that's just where I stand on them in the world of theorycrafting. I look forward to people posting about how well they play and what kind of impacts they can have.
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Jim P
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Pocolius wrote:
Mightyjim wrote:
I see plenty of builds running the common Falcon or Ant-Man - a 2-cost fist character with no power whatsoever, just to get the double-energy for buying more expensive dice.

Compared to this, Tsarina is just broken - yes there ARE counters now, but for a 2-cost character, she can easily do serve damage to you on turn 3 or 4 - probably well ahead of you getting out your counter-measure.

She's really powerful, but there are so many answers to her that if a pure Tsarina rush kills you, you should be able to fit an answer into your build.

Beast - Genetic Expert is still the great counter that he always was. Yes, if your opponent goes first they gain the initiative, but over time Beast will end up winning the game against a Tsarina rush.

Cerebro - Supercomputer makes her almost worthless. At 2 energy to field, it slows your opponent down too much to field her and makes it easy to stabilize.

Toad - Tongue Lashing forces her to attack (which she wants to do anyway) but also deals two damage to all attackers - KOing her in most situations. Sure, she gets her ability to activate, but since she's not trading with any blockers, you'll eventually gain enough advantage to overcome her.

There are also others, but I've used all 3 of the above to great effect against Tsarina. She's great, but not broken.


Toad: tongue-lashing is a 5-cost, and only deals the 2 damage on the burst side. Great once you can get him fielded, but it'll take several rounds. (same problem with Marvel Girl: Humanity)

Beast works if the opponent is actually letting Tsarina attacks go through, but provided they're running distraction, they can just keep pulling her back after the spin-down/damage triggers, and avoid knocking him out. Also, once beast has been spun down to level 1, he's easy to knock out with direct damage (i.e. Torch)

Cerebro looks like a stronger bet - that's one of about 5 cards I'm still missing for Uncanny, so hadn't spotted it.

Either way, I still think that her ability is too powerful for a 2-cost. As I previously posted, there a 2-cost characters who are worth running with NO power, so the fact that she has such a strong power, even if there are ways to build against it, still skews the game in favour of people who get lucky with the boosters / can afford to buy a singe off Ebay for £40. Even if she cost 3, it would stop people having 4 Tsarinas in the bag on turn 3, and balance things up a bit.
 
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Jared Wood
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Mightyjim wrote:
Toad: tongue-lashing is a 5-cost, and only deals the 2 damage on the burst side. Great once you can get him fielded, but it'll take several rounds. (same problem with Marvel Girl: Humanity)

A turn 1 Professor X global makes Toad a turn 2 purchase. He can easily see the field on turn 3 or turn 4. Yes, only on his burst, but even if you roll the level 3, you'll force the Tsarina to attack the first time, spin him down and then you're golden from there on out.

Mightyjim wrote:
Beast works if the opponent is actually letting Tsarina attacks go through, but provided they're running distraction, they can just keep pulling her back after the spin-down/damage triggers, and avoid knocking him out. Also, once beast has been spun down to level 1, he's easy to knock out with direct damage (i.e. Torch)

If my opponent is spending a mask energy to return 1+ Black Widows from actually dealing damage to anything, then I'm already winning. They're wasting energy in a very inefficient manner. Sure, Torch can ping him away, but if you're playing a control build (and if you're running Beast, you're definitely tilted towards control), you should have some removal to take care of Torch quickly.

Mightyjim wrote:
Cerebro looks like a stronger bet - that's one of about 5 cards I'm still missing for Uncanny, so hadn't spotted it.

Requiring two energy to field every Black Widow slows down your opponent a lot - it's definitely an efficient counter and what I'll go to first if they load-up on Tsarinas.

Mightyjim wrote:
Either way, I still think that her ability is too powerful for a 2-cost. As I previously posted, there a 2-cost characters who are worth running with NO power, so the fact that she has such a strong power, even if there are ways to build against it, still skews the game in favour of people who get lucky with the boosters / can afford to buy a singe off Ebay for £40. Even if she cost 3, it would stop people having 4 Tsarinas in the bag on turn 3, and balance things up a bit.

Yes, if you don't have a plan on how to deal with her, you will lose to it. I agree. But once you suffer a total defeat at the hands of that card, you should start thinking 'How do I counter this?'. This is what will make you a better player and improve at this game overall.

I've been given some funny looks or 'Really?' comments at certain plays from my opponent. While I won't explain why right then, I'll share afterwards - and they'll usually say something like 'Wow, I didn't even think of that - yea, that was the right move'.

Regardless, if WizKids felt the card was overpowered, we would have seen a nerf by now for their tournament play. Heck, Gobby didn't have a serious counter in AVX-only play and he didn't get a nerf. That was a much bigger 'If you don't have this card you lose' situation then Tsarina ever was.
 
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Tsarina easily gets neutered by Sabretooth - Something To Prove. At the start of your turn pump him up and use him to take the punishment when Black Widow attacks. He's a mid-range buy at 4, so you can get him out on your 3-4 turn.

As for Gobby, Quicksilver - Thanks To Isotope E paired with Feedback BAC makes opponents think twice about littering the Field with Sidekicks, since they do the same as Gobby. Quicksilver is also a 4, so he's easy to get out.

The way it looks to me is Scarlet Witch is moving up to #1, since her powers can't be countered. Lucky for me, I just got one Sunday.
 
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Tsarina-Distraction combo. Sabretooth is never a factor because you pull Tsarina back every turn.

Gobby-Scarlet Witch-Magneto global combo.

Imprisoned could slow you down both combos, but with a Mr. Fantastic or Phoenix, you'll get your dice out of jail quick.

Those two combos set Gobby, Tsarina and Scarlet Witch apart as top tier super rares.

 
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I have added the poll for YGO here. Please vote.

Ranking the Super Rares - Poll (includes earlier sets too)
 
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Josh Walker
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Pocolius wrote:


Mightyjim wrote:
Cerebro looks like a stronger bet - that's one of about 5 cards I'm still missing for Uncanny, so hadn't spotted it.

Requiring two energy to field every Black Widow slows down your opponent a lot - it's definitely an efficient counter and what I'll go to first if they load-up on Tsarinas.



This. When the UXM set first came out, I devastated a couple of players with this card who had always relied on a Tsarina rush.

That said, I use Tsarina in most of my builds, but it's not my typical victory condition. It's a threat for my opponent to consider and still the better choice over other 2-cost fist characters. People see her and assume she'll be my first buy (and she often is), but in reality it's a cheap non-mask purchase to allow for my PXG ramp. If they decide to go after Cerebro, I'm not too upset as I have something else in mind.

I've been playing since the first few weeks after release. When someone first discovered the Tsarina rush everyone declared the game broken. Heck, I played it against my brother until he found a way to stop it (at his request). Admittedly prior to the UXM release, a Gobby-Tsarina deck was the way to go, but wasn't a guarantee as a well rolled control team could steal a victory (I'm looking at you Beast and Hulk). Also, just having those two cards doesn't make you a winning player. I've won games using my Gobby-Tsarina deck against nearly identical decks because my opponent relied on the super rares, but didn't understand the nuances of switching strategies or timing buys and attacks.

Now another Marvel set later and almost a year out, the options are getting much wider. Just the inclusion of PXG made so many of the old cards viable. I don't play other CCGs, but from my understanding this is the typical path of newer releases. With Ultron dropping later this year, we'll find plenty more "broken" teams only to have someone (probably Nicholas Pham) find a solution later.

Was it a mistake to make Tsarina and Gobby super rares? Maybe. But if they had been a more available rarity, people likely would have been content to play the constant mirror match or declare the game a bore. The rarity forced those without the luck or money to examine the game in a deeper fashion, and for that I'm appreciative.
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Kalel42 wrote:
This thread makes me sad. Because I agree with the Gobby-Widow-Witch-Iron-Wolverine-Fantastic-Spider-Emma randing. And because I've pulled four SRs: Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic, Spider-man and Emma Frost. Just once I'd like one of the better ones in a set.


I've pulled 5 of the 8, but the only one I really want is that Gobby!
 
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