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Subject: transporter needed for secondary building production rss

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Bill Hollebeke
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The 4th edition rules state specifically that you don't need a transporter for the production of a primary building. For the production of a secondary building however it is not stated specifically if you need a transporter nearby.
So do you or do you not need a transporter on the tile of a secondary producer in order to make it produce.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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FYI: Technically, it is not the 4th edition. It is the 3rd Edition, 2nd printing.

No, you do not need a transporter on location for a Secondary Producer to produce. Also note that if goods are there, the Secondary Producer will in fact produce no matter what! You cannot stop it unless you have a transporter there.

Example. I leave 2 boards, 2 geese at a paper mill and leave. 2 boards become paper, paper and geese go Poof! as research. Because no one is there, no one gets the research that is produced! ("Leading to a great increase in mediphisical understanding . . ." in the rules under research.)

Sterling
 
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michael dorazio
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reeeaaaaaaly ...

I read the question last night before it was answered, and I figured, "nope". Guess we've been doing it wrong if this cat is right.

Mike.
 
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Sterling Babcock
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cradleofmilk wrote:
Guess we've been doing it wrong if this cat is right.


Meow? meeple
 
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Bill Hollebeke
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Ok with your answer but I still have some doubts since:

If I remember well (I don't have the rules on hand) the rules for secondary buildings state "after each player (with a transporter) has finished producing the secondary producer will process any leftovers" -> this would also seem to suggest that transporters need to be on the tile although I agree that it doesn't imply that a transporter needs to be on the tile.

I reread the rules and for primary buildings it is specifically stated that no transporter need to be nearby with an exclamation mark -> that's why I began to doubt in the first place

 
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Sterling Babcock
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Billtje wrote:
If I remember well (I don't have the rules on hand) the rules for secondary buildings state "after each player (with a transporter) has finished producing the secondary producer will process any leftovers" -> this would also seem to suggest that transporters need to be on the tile although I agree that it doesn't imply that a transporter needs to be on the tile.

I reread the rules and for primary buildings it is specifically stated that no transporter need to be nearby with an exclamation mark -> that's why I began to doubt in the first place


The rules are available from a link on the game page. Here is the relevant section from Page 8:

Quote:
Goods on the Tile: During the production phase, players with a transporter on a factory tile can take goods from the tile, deliver them to the factory for processing and receive the output. They can take the output even if they hand in goods from the tile only. In case of a conflict, see the conflict rules (page 17).

After all players have produced what they want, each factory will attempt to process any complete set of input goods which remains on the tile. The output will be placed on the tile unattended. The factory continues processing goods from the tile until the full capacity for that round has been exhausted, or until no complete set of input goods remains. Coal burners and paper mills will use all remaining boards on the tile before starting to process trunks.


I read the second paragraph to mean that players on the tile have priority in deciding what gets produced (i.e. player order is important for a producer that only produces one output), but that even if there are no players there that the factory will continue to produce from goods on the tile even if no one is there.

In support of this there are a couple of other entries:

Quote:
Page 9:
Unclaimed transporters: If enough input goods remain on the tile at the end of the production phase, and the transporter factory's capacity has not been used by the players, the factory will produce a transporter by itself. Since the players have already completed their production phase, no one can claim the new transporter. The transporter must therefore be destroyed. The input goods are lost and no new transporter is brought into the game.


And also in research:

Quote:
Page 16: PRODUCING RESEARCH
Research may be produced during the production phase at the cost of two geese and one paper. No building is needed. The geese and the paper must be on the same tile, which must also contain one of the player's transporters. If two geese and a paper are left on a tile, that is, if they are not being carried by a transporter, both geese and paper are used by the game and disappear. This leads to a great increase in metaphysical understanding which has no practical relevance in the game.


The only other way to check for an official answer would be to look at the single player solutions. I posted the files here, but I do not have time to go through them right now.

Sterling

 
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michael dorazio
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Oops. I accidentally replied to this post with the "reeeeaaaaaaaally ..." comment. I meant to reply to a GeekMail that I had received about this rule. That reply was not meant for this forum. I guess I'm glad I didn't type anything incriminating. shake
 
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Josh
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cradleofmilk wrote:
Oops. I accidentally replied to this post with the "reeeeaaaaaaaally ..." comment. I meant to reply to a GeekMail that I had received about this rule. That reply was not meant for this forum. I guess I'm glad I didn't type anything incriminating. shake


Ah, the trouble with internet communication- one button push and then no takebacks!

As someone who was playing R&B incorrectly (it turns out) with cradleofmilk, I feel like a double idiot, because I'm the guy who read the rules (for the second time) the night before our game. Since it was a 3-way solo game, wouldn't have mattered much I suspect, but always good to actually play the game correctly.

Sterling, I've really appreciated your comments about R&B, as it's a game with a tough learning curve. I've played twice, and my brain is already hurting by the first turn.
 
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Dick Hunt
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Billtje wrote:
The 4th edition rules state specifically that you don't need a transporter for the production of a primary building. For the production of a secondary building however it is not stated specifically if you need a transporter nearby.
So do you or do you not need a transporter on the tile of a secondary producer in order to make it produce.


I think Sterling is ultimately correct in the way he's playing the game, but I think he might have jumped through more hoops than necessary in order to get there.

I think the first sentence under the Secondary Producers rules covers your question pretty well:

Quote:
Secondary producers are represented by large square pieces with the symbol of their product. Secondary producers produce one item of the appropriate type if the required input goods are available.


The rule doesn't say anything about transporters being required on the tile. If the input goods are there, production takes place. The rules about transporters being there are only important when deciding what to do with the produced goods. If the transporter provided the input goods, it gets the produced good(s). If the input goods came from the tile, then the turn order determines which transporter (if any) gets the produced good(s).
 
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