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Subject: EF 1 or EF II? rss

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I recently purchased HOTS, Crusader Rex, RITD and WK (not all at the same time!). I've really come to enjoy these blocks (I'm an old AH collector, never got into Columbia games before). I had 2 questions and I'm hoping that kuhrusty might just pop in and see this as he appears to be the local expert about EF (or at least one of its biggest fans). My local game store has several EF in stock, but no EF II and I'm not holding my breath. Is EF II better enough to warrant waiting (god knows how long), or ordering it in (although Columbia really hoses us Canadians on shipping)? Am I better off just getting the original? Also they have WestFront in stock. How does it compare? Thanks for your time to anyone that responds.
 
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Bill Romaniecki
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If you think that you may ultimately play "Euro Front" go with EFII.
Otherwise, EF is fine. There are no major differences between the two games.

EFII does require more table space for the larger map (40% of which is not in play).
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Petdoc wrote:
as he appears to be the local expert about EF

(Bah, I'm just loud. A lot of people here have played it a lot more than I have, including the guy who did VolgaFront, ha ha ha.)

Anyway, I agree with Bill; EF1 is no less fun than EF2, and you might be able to get a good deal on it, especially if your FLGS has had those copies on their shelf for a long time.

One thing to consider in the math, though: EF2 includes most of the map from VolgaFront, and EF1 doesn't. Now, I was a "you don't need VolgaFront" person for a long time, because I didn't own it, and was having a lot of fun anyway. Upon buying it, naturally I came to feel it was essential, but of course you should doubt the judgment of a person who was excited about spending $30 for a piece of cardboard.

(Also, if you decide you want EF2, but shipping is an issue, your FLGS might be able to get it for you in their next order, and not pass the shipping on to you.)

Regarding WF, I figured I would like that a lot more, as the eastern front didn't really interest me as a topic, but I found it a lot harder to pick up than EF:
- My recollection, possibly incorrect, is that WF had some gnarly map errata. (I know I seemed to run into a lot more frustrating "is this hex supposed to be mountain" questions. Because of this, I think the difference between WF and WF2 is more significant than between EF and EF2.)
- You can mostly ignore the sea power rules in EF, but in WF, you can't (and there are more of them). So it may not be a lot more rules, but WF does have more rules. (And I'm not a huge fan of the all-or-nothing nature of control ports and interdictable sea supply anyway.)
- I found the extended example of play in EF very helpful, and the WF example not so helpful. (That's been substantially rewritten in WF2, though.)
- The very first turn of the very first EF scenario is just awesome: a massive force exploding through a weak line and cutting off multiple pockets of enemies. Once I saw that, I was hooked. In contrast, the first turn of the first WF scenario is somewhat less awesome, ha ha. "I landed a guy on the beach!"

So, WF may be as much fun as EF, but I don't know; it's hit the table very little.
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Chris Farrell
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The advantage of EFI is that a) it's ultimately somewhat cheaper, and b) it takes up substantially less table space.

The advantages of EFII are: a) The map and blocks are graphically much clearer; b) it comes with more useful map space (the map reaches further east, which can matter - Stalingrad is right on the board edge in EFI); and it has better integration with WestFront and EuroFront.

The WF/EuroFront integration is the biggest deal. Before you say, "but I'm never going to play anything that big", I should mention that the single-season or single-year scenarios for EuroFront (especially '42 and '43) are compelling in their own right and quite playable. And with the combined package you can do France '40, or throw in Scandanavia (which is quite well-done) to any game, including just a straight EastFront game (adding the battles in the far north).

In general, I think EFII is the superior package, and good value. The only big downside is the much larger map footprint, where the EFI map is quite compact and very efficient. It depends a bit on what kind of price difference you're looking at, though; the core game (before adding West or EuroFront) are the same, so if you can get an EFI for much cheaper than an EFII, you might want to think about it.

As for EF vs. WF, Rusty is correct that WF has more rules overhead than EF. You've more or less got to master naval movement and amphibious and airborne assaults to play WF. It's not a ton of rules, but it's not entirely trivial either.

WF plays a bit quicker than EF because the unit density is considerably lower, so that's nice. It's a very different flavor of game, a little more logistical because while the fronts are a bit more constrained, there are now two of them (France & Italy). I like it quite a bit, but on the other hand EF is the game that ultimately spends more time on the table.
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Thank you guys for your prompt and very helpful replies. I'm off to my store to see what they can do and I'll let you know what I get. Thanks again.
 
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Rob Bradley
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I just got Eastfront on EBAY. Partially due to the answers above. Thanks for your help.
 
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I think I was bidding against you for the westfront and medfront auctions last night!!

small world!
 
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Will Green
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Bill Romaniecki wrote:
If you think that you may ultimately play "Euro Front" go with EFII.

EFII does require more table space for the larger map (40% of which is not in play).


My questions, given that 40% of the larger map is not in play, are does this mean that Volga Front is unnecessary, as you have the map already with EFII, and why is the extra map area added to the game, if it is not in play?

(I am also thinking about getting one of these games, and the most compelling reason I have heard thus far is the genius placed into how the Victory Points/ conditions are with EFII). If anyone has more specifics about why to get EF, or EFII, over the other one, please add to the list.

 
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tyvek wrote:
Bill Romaniecki wrote:
If you think that you may ultimately play "Euro Front" go with EFII.

EFII does require more table space for the larger map (40% of which is not in play).


My questions, given that 40% of the larger map is not in play, are does this mean that Volga Front is unnecessary, as you have the map already with EFII, and why is the extra map area added to the game, if it is not in play?

(I am also thinking about getting one of these games, and the most compelling reason I have heard thus far is the genius placed into how the Victory Points/ conditions are with EFII). If anyone has more specifics about why to get EF, or EFII, over the other one, please add to the list.


The 40% of the map that is not in use is Turkey and the Mid-East, NOT the Volga part which is necessary it seems.


You can see the difference here:
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Doomfarer wrote:
tyvek wrote:
Bill Romaniecki wrote:
If you think that you may ultimately play "Euro Front" go with EFII.

EFII does require more table space for the larger map (40% of which is not in play).


My questions, given that 40% of the larger map is not in play, are does this mean that Volga Front is unnecessary, as you have the map already with EFII, and why is the extra map area added to the game, if it is not in play?

(I am also thinking about getting one of these games, and the most compelling reason I have heard thus far is the genius placed into how the Victory Points/ conditions are with EFII). If anyone has more specifics about why to get EF, or EFII, over the other one, please add to the list.


The 40% of the map that is not in use is Turkey and the Mid-East, NOT the Volga part which is necessary it seems.


You can see the difference here:


Yes, that is a great shot, which makes visualizing the two maps much easier. Now, my question is, what does that extra 40% of the map serve? Why is it there, if it is not being used?

Especially if you need the Volga front to use that portion of the EFII's map? (40% more map, which is about the cost difference between EF, and EFII...is there something more 'compelling' to the consumer to purchase the EFII version?

Continuing my search for understanding in this vexing arena of EF + EFII...
 
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tyvek wrote:
Doomfarer wrote:
tyvek wrote:
Bill Romaniecki wrote:
If you think that you may ultimately play "Euro Front" go with EFII.

EFII does require more table space for the larger map (40% of which is not in play).


My questions, given that 40% of the larger map is not in play, are does this mean that Volga Front is unnecessary, as you have the map already with EFII, and why is the extra map area added to the game, if it is not in play?

(I am also thinking about getting one of these games, and the most compelling reason I have heard thus far is the genius placed into how the Victory Points/ conditions are with EFII). If anyone has more specifics about why to get EF, or EFII, over the other one, please add to the list.


The 40% of the map that is not in use is Turkey and the Mid-East, NOT the Volga part which is necessary it seems.


You can see the difference here:


Yes, that is a great shot, which makes visualizing the two maps much easier. Now, my question is, what does that extra 40% of the map serve? Why is it there, if it is not being used?

Especially if you need the Volga front to use that portion of the EFII's map? (40% more map, which is about the cost difference between EF, and EFII...is there something more 'compelling' to the consumer to purchase the EFII version?

Continuing my search for understanding in this vexing arena of EF + EFII...


I think you're misunderstanding something here. Volgafront is already part of EF II, so Volgafront is for EF 1 only.

Turkey and the Mid-East is used if you want to play the EuroFront game. With EF II you only need to add WestFront II and EuroFront II to play the full multi-theatre game. WF II comes with the other half of the map and EuroFront II comes with the missing minor pieces (Swedes and so on).
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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tyvek wrote:
Continuing my search for understanding in this vexing arena of EF + EFII...

I think Doomfarer answered your question, but there's also a list of which-bits-are-in-which-editions in this page: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/EuroFront_series
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OK I just recieved my copy of EF I. Can I only use the EF I rules or can I dl and use the EF II rules? What are the non-map differences? Is there any advantage to either?
 
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Spacehulk wrote:
Can I only use the EF I rules or can I dl and use the EF II rules? What are the non-map differences? Is there any advantage to either?

The differences I noticed in the rules are here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/116926

I'd probably stick with the 3.02 rules, just because they don't refer to the few new units or edge-of-map stuff you don't have.

There are a few minor changes in the EF2 rules (weather disruption not applying to SHQ's in Warsaw/Moscow, easier paradrop linkup) which would be easy enough to pencil into your copy of the 3.02 rules, if you liked them.

(Oh yeah, one minor reason to stick with the version of the rules which came with your edition--since EF2 has a few additional satellite units, the EF2 scenario setups will say something like "7 units, 17 CV" for satellite infantry, where EF1 says "2 units, 6 CV." If you're using EF2 rules with EF1 blocks, you won't actually know how many satellite units/CV to start each scenario with.)
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cfarrell wrote:

The WF/EuroFront integration is the biggest deal. Before you say, "but I'm never going to play anything that big", I should mention that the single-season or single-year scenarios for EuroFront (especially '42 and '43) are compelling in their own right and quite playable. And with the combined package you can do France '40, or throw in Scandanavia (which is quite well-done) to any game, including just a straight EastFront game (adding the battles in the far north).


I'm confused... I was reading the rules for EuF2 and I didn't see a single-season or year scenarios in 42 and 43. The short scenarios were Winter War, Wesser, 1940a-c, 1944(a), SCW. Is there something I'm missing?
 
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