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Subject: 2p "friendly" variant rss

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Richard Ham
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Today I was an idiot and deleted a geeklist entry where

Luigi Ferrini
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(the designer of Golden Ages) chatted with me about a potential variant for the game that he believes would work just fine. I'm posting it here just for for the record, in case anyone's curious, because again, I was a doofus and deleted the entry where he had originally posted!

Anyway, in a nutshell, the notion was that for 2p only, it would not upset the balance of the game to alter the function of the "attack" actions, so that instead of allowing one player to destroy the other player's facility and then move in to build their own, in this variant, one player could use the attack option to move into the area and place their own facility, without destroying the first player's, so that both players occupy and benefit from the same space.

Anyway, just wanted to get that down for posterity, because again, I am a moron!
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Luigi Ferrini
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Re: 2p friendly variant
Thank you, Rahdo, your memory is fine! :-)

I hope someone (included myself, I hope soon) will test this variant, because I think it's simple and may work very well.
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Mc Jarvis
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Re: 2p friendly variant
That seems kind of weird to me. I already kind of like it when people attack me, as I can place more cubes for more income. It's not like attacking in this game is very negative at all.
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Luigi Ferrini
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Re: 2p friendly variant
McJarvis wrote:
That seems kind of weird to me. I already kind of like it when people attack me, as I can place more cubes for more income. It's not like attacking in this game is very negative at all.


When somenone attacks you, seldom it's a good thing (because you may attack back for regaining control of the same resources), seldom it's a (slightly) bad thing, because you're not longer in control of the square.
This variant "flatten" all this cases; I continue to like more the original (also because it fit better the "civilization" setting), but I think also that if you don't love attack, you may try it and have fun.

Gaming is all about having fun, so everyone is lord at his table! My purpose as a designer are two: to make a consistent game (and this variant match the purpose as the original) and to "communicate" a certain kind of experience (the core of the game is not on the attacks, so I think that also this purpose is fullfilled, even if the civilization setting is better with "normal" attacks).
I think that no designer is enabled to cross those boundaries. :-)
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Lucas Hedgren
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Re: 2p friendly variant
McJarvis wrote:
That seems kind of weird to me. I already kind of like it when people attack me, as I can place more cubes for more income. It's not like attacking in this game is very negative at all.


Even if you have no cubes in your supply, you can take them from the board for building cities. So, getting your cubes back is never a positive. Being removed from the space, so that you can reacquire the resources, can be though.
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Mc Jarvis
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Re: 2p friendly variant
boomtron wrote:
McJarvis wrote:
That seems kind of weird to me. I already kind of like it when people attack me, as I can place more cubes for more income. It's not like attacking in this game is very negative at all.


Even if you have no cubes in your supply, you can take them from the board for building cities. So, getting your cubes back is never a positive. Being removed from the space, so that you can reacquire the resources, can be though.


Ah, that would be my disconnect. I've been playing that once you are out of cubes, you need to get more in your supply.
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Alastair Jack
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Re: 2p friendly variant
Would this "friendly variant" be good for 3+ players as well? Or is it strictly 2p only?

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Luigi Ferrini
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Re: 2p friendly variant
alastair john jack wrote:
Would this "friendly variant" be good for 3+ players as well? Or is it strictly 2p only?



I think that in 3-4 players this variant may be intriguing.
Do someone want to try it and tell us his experience?
(I will try myself this variant in 4 players asap)
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Lucas Hedgren
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Re: 2p friendly variant
Lupigi wrote:
alastair john jack wrote:
Would this "friendly variant" be good for 3+ players as well? Or is it strictly 2p only?



I think that in 3-4 players this variant may be intriguing.
Do someone want to try it and tell us his experience?
(I will try myself this variant in 4 players asap)


Not me.

I already think the penalty for getting attacked is pretty low to begin with. I love your game, Luigi!
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ozzy perez
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Re: 2p friendly variant
boomtron wrote:
Lupigi wrote:
alastair john jack wrote:
Would this "friendly variant" be good for 3+ players as well? Or is it strictly 2p only?



I think that in 3-4 players this variant may be intriguing.
Do someone want to try it and tell us his experience?
(I will try myself this variant in 4 players asap)


Not me.

I already think the penalty for getting attacked is pretty low to begin with. I love your game, Luigi!


I second that.. I honestly do not think the attacking is catastrophic in this game, just something to be used when it's your best play but again, there are so many other cool ways to go, that you can ignore it altogether.
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Richard Ham
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Re: 2p friendly variant
Hey again!

1) I was even more of an idiot and just realized I posed this in the rules section instead of the variant section! I wonder if a moderator could move the thread? How does one report a thread in the wrong forum?

2) Luigi, I wonder how you might feel about a slight amendment to this variant: if player A attacks player B, player B has the option to keep his city/colonists on the space, and "share" the square with the attacker, or he can, if he wishes, return his city to his supply & colonists to his capital, if he prefers that?
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Lucas Hedgren
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Re: 2p friendly variant
rahdo wrote:
Hey again!

1) I was even more of an idiot and just realized I posed this in the rules section instead of the variant section! I wonder if a moderator could move the thread? How does one report a thread in the wrong forum?


Moved.
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Richard Ham
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Well we gave it a try tonight, and tbh, I think this neuters military power too much, and throws the balance of the game out of whack too far Jen pulled China as her first empire, and so decided to go heavy into military for a good deal of the game, and in the end, lost by over 25 points, not because she played poorly, but because she wasn't hobbling me, so I was able to continue to compete on terrain & resource majorities, which kept money rolling in, that let me steamroll her in the end...
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Luigi Ferrini
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rahdo wrote:
Hey again!
2) Luigi, I wonder how you might feel about a slight amendment to this variant: if player A attacks player B, player B has the option to keep his city/colonists on the space, and "share" the square with the attacker, or he can, if he wishes, return his city to his supply & colonists to his capital, if he prefers that?


I think that this variant is still in test, so you may try all the amendments that you want! :-)

Thank you for the effort!
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Luigi Ferrini
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rahdo wrote:
Well we gave it a try tonight, and tbh, I think this neuters military power too much, and throws the balance of the game out of whack too far Jen pulled China as her first empire, and so decided to go heavy into military for a good deal of the game, and in the end, lost by over 25 points, not because she played poorly, but because she wasn't hobbling me, so I was able to continue to compete on terrain & resource majorities, which kept money rolling in, that let me steamroll her in the end...


I think you may be right. However, a strategy strongly based only on China power and attacks have very low probability of being useful even with the normal rules, especially in two players (because you can't benefit full advantages from the Great Wall or the United Nations).
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Alastair Jack
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The first game I played no one attacked each other and had a good time, the next game was a worse experience for me when there was a china player who attacked people (and they did terribly anyway). I'll probably try the friendly variant but without China and see if the game's any good.
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