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Subject: 4 Factions Map rss

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Ulf Beorstruk
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With the 4 factions now revealed, you can make an even match by having each faction bridge to each other faction once.

Here's one possible way this placement can work.

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Kirk Mathes
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That map looks like a BLAST.
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Roy Romasanta
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Wow! Great layout! Can't wait to try it!
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Iain Row
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that looks AMAZING!

My group is typically 4 players, and the 4 player version actually left me a little flat (only 2 heroes per side?)but this looks awesome.

This will be manic! Solid chance of high wait time between turns, but I think it will move fast enough, and you will be being attacked quite a lot!

I hope they pick this up and make it official!
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Mick Ketchell
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Looks great, but where does the Kraken go when it's summoned?
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Matt S
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Ulf I made a quick update, but left it a little linear. This also preserves the end objectives as being a little harder to get to.

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Ulf Beorstruk
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@Matt, that certainly works. More linear, though less chaotic looking

When the Kraken appears, it can go anywhere the tile can fit. It is placed by the player with the least tentacle icons (roll off on a tie).

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Matt S
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With 4 players rolling the Kraken will happen super often. Looking at each faction's tide deck. It would be more bookkeeping but you almost need 3 Kraken piles one to represent each location it could come up at and when you play a card that has the symbol you roll to see which pile it goes in. 1-3, left most that would effect you; 4-5 right most that would effect you; 6 in the pile that would not effect you.
 
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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Isn't there a clear bias in both boarding maps against Mazu to a greater extend and then the French?

It is a hell of a trip to go from one of their boats to the other.



 
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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Actually I just noticed the whirlwind symbols on Mazu boats allow for quick teleportation.
In which case having their ships spread apart is not an issue.

So only thing to make sense would be to have Brise ships a bit closer.

To achieve that I would swap the Brise and the Mazu ships on Ulf's map suggestion on the bottom right.

No idea how to achieve it on a more linear map like Matt's.

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Matt S
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Looking back at the updates form the campaign there is no connection on either layout between the two Brise ships.

In my layout there is no bias from one faction against another. All factions have 3 planks going off of their ships that touch each of the other faction. It also preserves the distance of one gangplank to any other ship.
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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Hi Matt

What I meant is that on a standard layout the Brise ships are around the enemy ship. The fact that their objective zones are spread apart is balanced by the two deck guns among others.

In your layout their ships are even further apart so that if one wants to move around their heroes from one boat to the other it will be a lot harder while the Mazu need not worry about that.

You can already see that Mazu vs Brise brings both Brise boats close together to reduce the disadvantage and balance things out.

That being said I agree ideally you wouldn't want a boardinplank against an objective...
 
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Ulf Beorstruk
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Yup, there shouldnt be any bias in either of these maps.

In fact, if you're playing the Cheese, rigging from one ship to the other is the same distance in my map as it would be in a 1v1 map. If the ships were swapped, they'd actually be closer together in this map than they would be in a normal 1v1.

The Kracken, unless I'm much mistaken, is a 1x3 squares tile, so there are a ton of places it could fit. With the linear board, I'd be more concerned about the Sea Monster completely halving the map.

Hoping we'll see some more sea monsters before the campaign is done. Otherwise, there will have to be some house-ruled monsters for this 'Chaos Mode' 4-player game.
 
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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Hi Ulf,

Brise vs Mazu brings the french ships close to each other so this might not be a huge advantage. So in a 4-player map it might make sense to have them closer than a 2-player map anyway.
(One can always leave a 2-space gap between the two blue ships to make the jump a bit riskier.)

But in any case, the problem is still "the plank next to objective" between green and red.

The only suggestion I can come up with is the following:
[Note: The deckhands will deploy on the right of left objective on the Brise top (horizontal) ship and move on the objective and then to the right to account for space symmetry.
Leaving one or two sea spaces between the Brise ships is up to you. I still think 1-space would be OK but below I left 2 to pinpoint this option as well.]

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Matt S
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My main point in making the ships more linear was to provide the Kraken proper threat to as many ships at a given time as possible. Ulf your first map is good as it preserves the going strait off of your home ship for deckhands without crossing multiple objectives (one exception). However it makes the Kraken seriously less effective.

Dimitrios, deckhands only ever go forward anyway so those will not need to get back to your own ship. As for your main crew like you said the Mazu will be able to move about with the whirlwinds (it is there specialty), the rest will just have to be more strategic of where the crew goes. Fast action with risk reward going on here. If you review the layouts with the Brise they do not go from ship to ship there is no connection, so its ok if they are on different sides of the map.
 
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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I see your point Matt, but if you take into account proper tiles on each ship your suggestion is not feasible. Ships overlay unfortunately. I tried out some tweaks with no luck. Thus resulting to my suggestion above...

As for the Brise, they can still grapple from one ship to the other.
(something not possible if they are far apart, in which case if you summon both crew on one ship, it will be impossible to defend the other.)

As for the Kraken, one can be a bit creative. I.e. we all get 6 tentacles right. So one tentacle is places next to each plank and the effects of the Kraken take place around the tentacles. I haven't thought about it much but it is worth a try. The Sea dragon can simply substitute the plank of choice of the faction that summoned it.
 
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Ulf Beorstruk
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I like your map as well Dimitrios. In either case, at least one set of deckhands are going crosswise against multiple objectives though.

Here's another crack, this one doesn't have any deckhands going across multiple objectives, but the Brise are farther apart.



Also marked are 6 places where the Kraken could be placed to affect a minimum of two ships. Roll a die when it shows up.
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Matt S
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The next thing to consider in placement of the ships is threat, how many ships can threaten another ship? That does include rigging but not when you would have to roll a 5 or 6. Ideally each ship would be threatened by at least 3 ships.
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Ulf Beorstruk
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Not sure how reliable a metric that would be. For instance, in a Mazu v Wellsport game, the galley is threatened by 3 windcutters while each windcutter is threatened by only the 1 galley.

However, by my count with the latest map its

Wellsport 4
Bone Devils 4
Brise 2+3
Mazu 3+3+1

Because of the teleport pads, each windcutter could also be considered threatening the other two. However, thats the tradeoff for their increased mobility.
 
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Benjamin Bement
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I'm probably going to run that that we use all the zones with the new add on dragons and Krackens
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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I added some further detail on the map to explain spawning points and direction of movement for deckhands.

Remember than once deckhands reach an enemy spawning point they stop and cannot move on it. SI this sorts out any issues.

I still believe La Brise should have their ships relatively close to each other to not give them a disadvantage against the opponents, who can easily move from one point on their ship to another.

Kraken can go in many locations around ships (as specified by Ulf).
I think one good constrain could be that the faction that has the most kraken symbols on used tide cards or the faction that summoned the Kraken choose the location between 2-ships where the Kraken will appear with the requirement that one of the 2-ships belongs to them.

Alternatively, multiple position, where tentacles appear, could be used (i.e. one next to each gangplank to achieve similar effects as in standard 2-player game).

By the way, do we know where Kraken appears if La Brise or Mazu are fighting on a 2-player game???
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Thom En
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Do we need the 50 extra coins for a 4player game?!
 
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Dimitrios Giannoulis
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If you do not like using half plastic half cardboard...
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Ulf Beorstruk
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You don't 'need' the extra coins, if you're going to be keeping the cardboard ones as well. If you only want plastic components, then you'll probably have more than 50 coins in use at a time.
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Troy Forster
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Loving this thead, can't wait to try out some of these maps.

One variable I just thought of is that any action that affects "all deployed enemy heroes" is three times as powerful in a four sides game I.e. The Killmaster and Alex of Pain's 5 coin abilities. Maybe you'd have to change those to "choose an opponent; all of their deployed heroes..." to keep the relative power of the ability in check?
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