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Subject: EZOC negated by friendly unit during movement or advance? rss

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Yani
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I understand that supply can flow through an EZOC if a friendly unit occupies the EZOC hex. I couldn't find however any rule regarding the negation of EZOC by an occupying friendly unit during movement or advance.

Does a friendly occupied hex adjacent to an enemy unit constitute an EZOC (and thus friendlies need to stop upon entering etc), or not?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Michael McCalpin
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You are asking good questions today! Not only is there not a rule that I can find that specifically covers this, but the examples don't cover it either. A search at Consimworld turns up no answers.

Mark Simonitch (the designer) checks in pretty often at the France '40 board at Consimworld (http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dd6f8fa), so you might post your questions there. He does drop in here from time to time, but less often.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I have a different approach to such questions: if there's nothing in the rules saying that friendly presence negates EZOC for movement or advance, there's no reason to think that friendly presence would negate EZOC for movement or advance. A rulebook can't conceivably answer every question about rules from other games.
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Michael McCalpin
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Sphere wrote:
I have a different approach to such questions: if there's nothing in the rules saying that friendly presence negates EZOC for movement or advance, there's no reason to think that friendly presence would negate EZOC for movement or advance. A rulebook can't conceivably answer every question about rules from other games.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. The rule about supply did call out the negation pretty clearly but didn't make it general. On the other hand, the second example of advance after combat completely skated around the question, showing only non-friendly occupied hexes as legitimate advance hexes. It seems to me that the example could be more complete regardless and that would have answered the question.
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Sergey Kosarev
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"The six hexes immediately surrounding a hex occupied by one or more units constitute the Zone of Control (ZOC) of those units. ZOCs extend across all hexsides except All Sea hexsides."

"All units must stop upon entering an enemy Zone of Control (EZOC)."


I believe, rules are pretty clear here - No any negation EZOC for movement.
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Øivind Karlsrud
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I've never played a game in which eZOC is negated by friendly units when moving (well, I actually have, on PC: Unity of Command), and there's nothing in the rules that says it is negated, so I'm pretty sure you have to stop even if there's a friendly unit there. OTOH, that eZOC is negated by friendly units for the purpose of tracing supply, is explicitly stated in the rules (this is also common in other games). I guess the question you ask doesn't come up too often, since most people just assume things are as in other games. If you haven't played many other games, there's no way of knowing what's common, of course.
 
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Yani
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oivind22 wrote:
I've never played a game in which eZOC is negated by friendly units when moving ...


Have you played OCS? EZOC are negated for truck movement in OCS. Other games I've played in the past (that I can't recall unfortunately) also allow EZOC infiltration through chains of units.

Even France 40 allows retreats through negated EZOC under certain circumstances, so I do not think asking for negation during movement and especially advance is unreasonable. I have seen many times that the playtesters simply didn't catch a specific case, so saying that since it is not in the rules it isn't so is a bit... optimistic. Unless you are talking about games like Combat Commander where the rules are sublime in their clarity. There's a reason series like OCS are in their 4th edition.

Thanks for the input though.
 
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Øivind Karlsrud
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coralsaw wrote:
oivind22 wrote:
I've never played a game in which eZOC is negated by friendly units when moving ...


Have you played OCS? EZOC are negated for truck movement in OCS. Other games I've played in the past (that I can't recall unfortunately) also allow EZOC infiltration through chains of units.

Even France 40 allows retreats through negated EZOC under certain circumstances, so I do not think asking for negation during movement and especially advance is unreasonable. I have seen many times that the playtesters simply didn't catch a specific case, so saying that since it is not in the rules it isn't so is a bit... optimistic. Unless you are talking about games like Combat Commander where the rules are sublime in their clarity. There's a reason series like OCS are in their 4th edition.

Thanks for the input though.


No, I haven't played OCS. That sounds a bit like friendly units negating eZOC for strategic movement. I think I've seen that somewhere. Maybe in Dark Valley? Or maybe in this game, I don't remember the rules for rail movement now.

The infiltration move you mention reminds me of Unity of Command on PC. You can move one unit into eZOC (which must then stop), then other units can move through. It works great in that game, with its focus on supply and breaking supply.

Anyway, I'm still almost 100% sure you must always stop when entering an eZOC in France '40.

I agree that Combat Commander has excellent rules. It is so easy to find what you're looking for, when every rule is exactly where it should be.
 
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