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Jim Cote
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Please be one of those companies that posts rules! This game sounds so cool. I'm kicking myself for not thinking of the idea. meeple
 
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VIALLA Ludovic
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Sorry for my english...
We currently translate the rules into German and english which we will put soon on line

you can find some information on this blog :
http://crusaders-of-time.over-blog.com/

BdC
 
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Jim Cote
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Thank you! thumbsup
 
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VIALLA Ludovic
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Hello,

you will find the English and German rules at this address :

[gameid=http://www.matagot.com/docs/Khronos_rules.pdf]

++

BdC

 
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Jim Cote
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Ok! Here we go. First off, thanks for posting the rules. This game sounds incredible. I was surprised at the "intricacy" of the play. At first read, it sounds heavier than E&T's internal/external conflicts. For me, this is a good thing. I think Khronos has a shot at Top 50 easily.

The rules are well laid out for having 3 different languages. I found a number of small issues. I hope you haven't printed yet. In all cases I color the rules quote in blue and bolded the changes I suggest or the part I am questioning. At the end I have a few rules questions.

Page 1

In function of the period, the criteria for dominion will be either military, religious or civil.

This is very awkward English. I suggest something like, "Based on the period..."

Domains allow players to earn tax...

Page 2

The Civil buildings are blue; 20 Hamlets, 24 Towns and 9 Cities.

Monastery (label on diagram)

Page 3

Throughout the rules, you use the word "pocket" in the place of "earn". It seems awkward.

When the turn comes back to the first player, that player moves the Turn Indicator pawn to the next space.


Page 4

She also moves her second adventurer from the Age of Might to the Age of Faith board by spending another 1 Ecu.

Page 5

It is implied but never stated that you can build any type of building on the Might and Faith game boards. I think this is important to say explicitly since the building types seem to match up with the game board sections.

Page 6

A player uses Construction Cards to upgrade a Religious or Military building that they control or any Civil building on the Age of Might or Faith game boards.

Page 8

When playing with two or three players, if the construction or upgrade of a building covers at least one forest square,

The construction or upgrading of Civil Buildings that would then create the junction of two domains is allowed.

Page 9

"The Rule of Hierarchy" alternating normal/bold text seems odd.

Page 10

If the legal construction or expansion of a building during the Age of Might creates a ripple on to the Age of Faith board that occupies totally or partially the space occupied by a different building

Page 12

In the event of equal power, the building to be downsized would be in priority that of the player who caused the junction or if the player is not concerned by the violation of the Hierarchical rule, the building the player chooses.

Very awkward wording. This is going to cause a lot of questions. The gist is: If the player who caused the downsize is tied for highest power, his building must be chosen to be downsized. In the event of ties between other players, the active player may choose.

The Rule of Hierarchy does not apply. ... Whenever a Civil building would connect 3 or more domains, the rules are the same. The military or religious power is calculated for each domain and the initiating player must always, in the event of a tie, downsize their own buildings first.

This text discussing the joining of 3 domains is contradictory and comes from out of nowhere. Why discuss the joining of 3 doamins only here? And why discuss how to apply the Rule of Hierarchy if it doesn't apply?

Page 13

When downsizing a Military or Religious building, the building of the same type of the next smaller size replaces it.

After downsizing, it is possible that the original domain becomes divided into two or more separate domains.

...and if the building had been renovated, it becomes a ruin again

Page 14/15

It is forbidden to construct any building at all on the Age of Reason game board. ... It is forbidden to construct a Military or Religious building on the Age of Reason game board.

A little odd to have this worded differently in two different locations.

Page 16

On the Age of Might board: the Red player pockets 7 Ecus for the domain with the Keep and 4 Ecus for her Watch Tower domain.

On the Age of Reason board: the White player pockets 5 Ecus; 2 Ecus for the renovated Keep and 3 Ecus for the vestiges of the Abbey and the Monastery, all this thanks to her two Control cubes populating the domain.

It looks like the rule for cube ties only applies to the Age of Reason since the statement is in that specific paragraph. What happens with ties in the Age of Might and the Age of Faith?


RULES:

The rules do not admit the possibility of joining 3 or more domains, except in the one strange place on page 12. Is it allowable to join more than 2 in any Age? It doesn't seem to be much more complex to resolve than joining just 2.

What is the order of evaluation of Might/Faith buildings on the Age of Reason board?

When a building is downsized on the Age of Might board, the time shadow of the downsized building is only rippled if the building present on the Age of Faith board is identical (same type, same value) and belongs to the same player.

Is there any reason to add the phrase "same exact location" as well? I can't quite figure it out. Is it possible for there ever to be 2 identical buildings on different boards, but offset by a space?

I assume this is not the case, but I have to ask. If you have both your adventurers on the same board at the end of the 4th or 7th game turn, do you earn double?

What order do you do things when a new/upgraded building must ripple but also joins two or more domains? Ripple the building, then deal with Rules of Dominion/Hierarchy? Or deal with Rules of Dominion/Hierarchy, then ripple the results?

The following 2 actions (Traveling in Time and Using Construction Cards) are optional and can be made in any order, and several times.

It is hence impossible to construct on all three game boards during the same turn. It is also impossible to spend three cards on one game board and the remaining one on a different game board.


These 2 rules seem contradictory. Why can't I use 1 card on A, move a pawn to B, use 2 cards in B, move the other pawn to B, and use another card on B? The rules seems to address the 2 possible static cases, but not the implied cases where you can use AND move pawns.

Do the values of ruins count as part of the winnings of a domain in the Age of Reason?

Although I can't think of a specific case yet, I have a weird feeling that there's some complex situation that has not been addressed.
 
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Shane Is Board
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Rules are overall fantastic, loved the format...I *hate* having separate language sections, liked how all the rules ran parrallel to each other. Very clear also...looks like a fantastic game, can't wait
 
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Allen Doum
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Looks great, and I hope that the game is as good as the theme, as I am a sucker for time-travel games and have been disapointed more often than not.

I'm sure there is a Geeklist on the topic ...

Yep. There is one:

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/12380

And another:

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/523
 
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Jim Cote
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For a game this complex, the rules really need some more work. If you plan on releasing them like this, you might as well start writing your 16-page FAQ right now. Seriously. E&T is much simpler than Khronos, and just look at all the questions there are on how to resolve internal and external conflicts.
 
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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English is not the designers' first language, so there will be a few issues arising from that and the fact that the Latin way of explaining things is not the same as the Anglo-Saxon way. (I can happily write that since I'm an English tech writer living in France and I deal with these issues in my daily life!)

I'm helping them polish things, so a big thank you already to Jim for his comments, which are exactly on target!

Like others here, having seen the rules... I'm itching to play!

Gavin
 
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VIALLA Ludovic
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about rules
thank you for all these comments. the rules are printed but we note your remarks for the republication.

About questions
I answer the best possible with my school English


ekted wrote:
Page 5

It is implied but never stated that you can build any type of building on the Might and Faith game boards. I think this is important to say explicitly since the building types seem to match up with the game board sections.

I understand the need for precision


ekted wrote:
Page 12

The Rule of Hierarchy does not apply. ... Whenever a Civil building would connect 3 or more domains, the rules are the same. The military or religious power is calculated for each domain and the initiating player must always, in the event of a tie, downsize their own buildings first.

This text discussing the joining of 3 domains is contradictory and comes from out of nowhere. Why discuss the joining of 3 doamins only here? And why discuss how to apply the Rule of Hierarchy if it doesn't apply?

This paragraph in italic does not relate to the age of reason but the age of might and the age of faith. it is simply badly placed...


ekted wrote:
Page 16

On the Age of Might board: the Red player pockets 7 Ecus for the domain with the Keep and 4 Ecus for her Watch Tower domain.

On the Age of Reason board: the White player pockets 5 Ecus; 2 Ecus for the renovated Keep and 3 Ecus for the vestiges of the Abbey and the Monastery, all this thanks to her two Control cubes populating the domain.

It looks like the rule for cube ties only applies to the Age of Reason since the statement is in that specific paragraph. What happens with ties in the Age of Might and the Age of Faith?

I am not sure to have understood the question.
the egality is impossible on the age of might and the Age of Faith because the most prestigious religious and Military building in each domain must be unique.


ekted wrote:
RULES:

The rules do not admit the possibility of joining 3 or more domains, except in the one strange place on page 12. Is it allowable to join more than 2 in any Age? It doesn't seem to be much more complex to resolve than joining just 2.

It’s allowable, the paragraph is badly placed

ekted wrote:
What is the order of evaluation of Might/Faith buildings on the Age of Reason board?

this does not exist
It is forbidden to construct a building during the age of reason which is thus a copy of the age of Faith.

ekted wrote:
When a building is downsized on the Age of Might board, the time shadow of the downsized building is only rippled if the building present on the Age of Faith board is identical (same type, same value) and belongs to the same player.

Is there any reason to add the phrase "same exact location" as well? I can't quite figure it out. Is it possible for there ever to be 2 identical buildings on different boards, but offset by a space?

I am not sure to have understood the question.
This rule cover two cases :
1.
The red player build a monastery on the age of Might (rippled). And later, the red player upgrade the monastery but on the age of Faith.

2.
after many evolutions of the play, There is a monastery controlled by the red player on the age of Might and another monastery controlled by the white player at the same place but on the age of Faith (yes yes it’s possible…)


ekted wrote:
I assume this is not the case, but I have to ask. If you have both your adventurers on the same board at the end of the 4th or 7th game turn, do you earn double?

No no no… shake


ekted wrote:
What order do you do things when a new/upgraded building must ripple but also joins two or more domains? Ripple the building, then deal with Rules of Dominion/Hierarchy? Or deal with Rules of Dominion/Hierarchy, then ripple the results?

Build – control (Age of Might) – Ripple – Control (Age of Faith) – ripple (Age of reason)


ekted wrote:
The following 2 actions (Traveling in Time and Using Construction Cards) are optional and can be made in any order, and several times.

It is hence impossible to construct on all three game boards during the same turn. It is also impossible to spend three cards on one game board and the remaining one on a different game board.


These 2 rules seem contradictory. Why can't I use 1 card on A, move a pawn to B, use 2 cards in B, move the other pawn to B, and use another card on B? The rules seems to address the 2 possible static cases, but not the implied cases where you can use AND move pawns.

The two adventurers pawns are on the age of Might board (A).
You can use 1 card on A with the first pawn, move the second pawn to B, use 2 cards in B, move the first pawn to B but the fourth card is lost.
Because two cards are associated at one pawn and these two cards must be played on the same board.


ekted wrote:
Do the values of ruins count as part of the winnings of a domain in the Age of Reason?

Yes and you can see it on the visual example (P16)
The white player pockets 2 ecus for the renovates keep and 3 ecus for the abbey ans monastery ruins.


ekted wrote:
Although I can't think of a specific case yet, I have a weird feeling that there's some complex situation that has not been addressed.

We realized more than 100 parts of tests and we hope to have treated all the specific cases

BdC
 
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Jim Cote
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Boule de cristal wrote:
the rules are printed but we note your remarks for the republication.


Once you get enough feedback, I urge you to update them and make them available online.

Boule de cristal wrote:
ekted wrote:
What is the order of evaluation of Might/Faith buildings on the Age of Reason board?

this does not exist
It is forbidden to construct a building during the age of reason which is thus a copy of the age of Faith.


But can't you have a sequence of events such that the rule of Hierarchy has to be resolved in the Age of Reason only? Do paradoxes from Might to Faith also remove the ruins from Reason?

MMM MMM
MMMCCMMM
MMMCCMMM

MMM
MMMCC
MMMCC Add C to Age of Faith. Hierarchy issue in Age of Reason.

Boule de cristal wrote:
ekted wrote:
When a building is downsized on the Age of Might board, the time shadow of the downsized building is only rippled if the building present on the Age of Faith board is identical (same type, same value) and belongs to the same player.

Is there any reason to add the phrase "same exact location" as well? I can't quite figure it out. Is it possible for there ever to be 2 identical buildings on different boards, but offset by a space?

I am not sure to have understood the question.
This rule cover two cases :
1.
The red player build a monastery on the age of Might (rippled). And later, the red player upgrade the monastery but on the age of Faith.

2.
after many evolutions of the play, There is a monastery controlled by the red player on the age of Might and another monastery controlled by the white player at the same place but on the age of Faith (yes yes it’s possible…)


So it's also possible that the player who owns the building in Might could re-build the same building in the same location in Faith. This building is a "new" one and not the original ripple. Does it matter? Does it matter is this new building is not in the exact same location as the other?

Boule de cristal wrote:
ekted wrote:
The following 2 actions (Traveling in Time and Using Construction Cards) are optional and can be made in any order, and several times.

It is hence impossible to construct on all three game boards during the same turn. It is also impossible to spend three cards on one game board and the remaining one on a different game board.


These 2 rules seem contradictory. Why can't I use 1 card on A, move a pawn to B, use 2 cards in B, move the other pawn to B, and use another card on B? The rules seems to address the 2 possible static cases, but not the implied cases where you can use AND move pawns.

The two adventurers pawns are on the age of Might board (A).
You can use 1 card on A with the first pawn, move the second pawn to B, use 2 cards in B, move the first pawn to B but the fourth card is lost.
Because two cards are associated at one pawn and these two cards must be played on the same board.


Then I would say that the first rule I quote is incorrect. You are saying I can't do the actions "in any order and several times". What you mean is that you can:

1. move, or
2. build, or
3. move and build, or
4. build and move, or
5. move and build and move

But you cannot:

6. build and move and build

In other words, you can only build once (max 2 cards) with each pawn, and only in a single Age. The second quote says this, but I think the first quote makes it seem like you have more options than you really do.



Thank you for your quick reply.
 
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Richard Rutten
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Looks very interesting! Looking forward to try this in Essen!

Thanks for sharing the rules!
 
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Thomas Tillich
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Yes, looks interesting indeed, but I would like to give an advice to all german speeking players: Don't use the german translation of the rules. They're horrible and even partly wrong! Stick to the english translation which is quite good.
 
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VIALLA Ludovic
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ekted wrote:
But can't you have a sequence of events such that the rule of Hierarchy has to be resolved in the Age of Reason only? Do paradoxes from Might to Faith also remove the ruins from Reason?

No, the age of Reason is a copy of the age of Faith except the buildings of size 1. If the the control of the hierarchic rule is ok on the age of Faith, it is also ok for the age of Reason.
Yes the paradoxe from Might to Faith can also remove ruins.



ekted wrote:
MMM MMM
MMMCCMMM
MMMCCMMM

MMM
MMMCC
MMMCC Add C to Age of Faith. Hierarchy issue in Age of Reason.

????


ekted wrote:
So it's also possible that the player who owns the building in Might could re-build the same building in the same location in Faith. This building is a "new" one and not the original ripple. Does it matter? Does it matter is this new building is not in the exact same location as the other?

About the 2:
It’s possible that the player red build in Might a monastery (rippled to Faith and Reason). Later, the same monastery in Faith is downsized into chapel. Later this chapel is demolished and later the white player build in Faith a monastery at the same place of the red monastery in Might.
It’s never observed but, if the red player do this last operation (build in Faith this monastery), we consider that it’s the same monastery because it’s too difficult to remember the history of this monastery. but they would not be false for accustomed players to consider that this is a new building.


ekted wrote:
Then I would say that the first rule I quote is incorrect. You are saying I can't do the actions "in any order and several times". What you mean is that you can:

1. move, or
2. build, or
3. move and build, or
4. build and move, or
5. move and build and move

But you cannot:

6. build and move and build

In other words, you can only build once (max 2 cards) with each pawn, and only in a single Age. The second quote says this, but I think the first quote makes it seem like you have more options than you really do.

To be clear, you explain the rule for one adventurer pawn and what you say is true.
But I explain the rule for the player :

6. Build with the pawn 1, move the pawn 2, build with the pawn 2
We observed that the first build can give ideas for the action of the second pawn and we decided to give a great liberty of action

BdC
 
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