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Subject: Terrible Production Values rss

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Alkis Moraitis
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I had the chance to play the english edition at a friend's house with four players. I must say that the game was amusing and I would gladly play it again, however not with my copy because I am not getting one.

Why is that you say?

Because I am verry dissapointed at all the problems I saw with the production quality of this package. Now, I don't know where it was made but the cards are plain paper without any protection coating, no linen finish, no glossy feel, nothing just paper with black borders, they nick very easily and have text with very small fonts. There was ample space on the card "wasted" on the amusing graphic but the texts had to be squeezed to the bottom in such a way tha makes most people squint to read. Maybe I am getting old...

The boards are covered with nice art, but like with the cards, they are not linen or glossy finished, just plain paper. If you spit a bit by mistake while you speek (and most people do) you have a spot on the board. More terrible is the fact that there is no protection cloth adhessive band underneath the board to protect it from ripping apart at the joins. As a result we played with non flat boards out of fear that they would rip.

The insert is another sad story already mentioned by others.

Bottom end: Why pay for such poor components. Doing your self people have produced far better results than this professionally printerd game. I will play again, for sure, at least to give some value to my friend's purchase, but I feel that he has been ripped off.

If you can play someone else's copy fine. If not, don't buy it or you will most probably be let down.
 
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Michael Barnes
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With all due to respect to the opinion expressed above, I have to say that this post is an example of how one person's extreme opinion will likely go on to influence countless other BGG sycophants who will say things like "I hear the production quality sucks" in conversation about the game without ever having seen or touched the components.

Mission Red Planet has _excellent_ production values overall and it seems that what Alkis has taken objection to more than anything is the matte finish of the board and cards- they aren't just "plain paper" at all. I liked it quite a lot and it gives the game a distinctive look from the usual linen finish that usually accompanies European games that accentuates the colors very nicely. The game is as professionally produced as any other, and although he is right that the text is small it isn't any smaller than in any other game with cards of a similar size.

The game's not going to fall apart on you, don't worry. I do, however, definitely agree that the insert completely sucks but so what? I bought it for the game, not the plastic tray!
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Chris Johnson
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I just received my copy this weekend.

And while the production *design* is spectacular, the *quality* of the production is in fact lacking. From the insert that physically will not contain the punched game, to the sub-par quality of the boards, cards, and die-cutting, to the multiple wooden pieces painted together (those that weren't missing), everything about the quality of this game says corners were cut.

The game itself looks reasonably interesting, and will no doubt be fun, but if I'd seen the quality of the game before buying, I would have passed, and played some one else's copy. Caveat emptor.

And one final peeve: high-gloss boxes are the work of the devil: they are incredibly difficult to open, and I am seeing more and more of them; this trend needs to stop.
 
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Nairb Attobas
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As has been noted, the plastic insert is not very good. I'm also not a fan of the glossy box, as it is more difficult than it should be to open and close the box.

However, I have no issue with the quality of any of the other components, barring the misprint on two of the Discovery cards, which in no way affects gameplay. In fact, I'd be inclined to say the quality is quite good. The rocket ships are nice, thick cardboard, and I have no issue with the little wooden astronauts. I haven't noticed any lack of quality with regard to the cards either.

Frankly, I was surprised to see the game's quality described as 'terrible' as I have seen it to be anything but.

To each their own, I suppose.
 
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bruno faidutti
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I've not actually seen the US edition yet, but I bet that, save for the square board, they are the same as the french one.

The square board is due to the fact that the circular one of the french edition didn't always stay flat. Obviously, if the plastic insert wasn't changed from the french edition as well, it doesn't fit in it! I think that's where the problem lies, and I'm ready to forgive the publisher because their US print runs are still very small and probably couldn't afford a specific insert mould. My overall view as to plasic inserts is still the same, all publishers ought to get rid of them and replace them with a few ziplock bags - which I often do with my new games.

I'm pretty sure all other components hve the same quality as the french ones, and this means they are quite good. There's someone at Asmodéee who likes glossy printing and smooth finish, while german usually opts for matte printing and weft paper, but this doesn't mean the quality is weaker. I've played a lot with a french copy, and the cards don't wear.
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david karasick
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Having bought and played the game several times , my opinion of the quality of components is that there was no quality control. The plastic insert is abysmal as nothing fits cleanly for storage. The spaceships tend to split apart due to substandard cardboard. The board outer lining is peeling in the corner. Thanks for glue sticks!..........Asmodee should take lessons from the germans!!!!!!!And several of the discovery cards had spelling problems with letters omitted or poorly spaced lettering.
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Alkis Moraitis
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure all other components hve the same quality as the french ones, and this means they are quite good. There's someone at Asmodéee who likes glossy printing and smooth finish, while german usually opts for matte printing and weft paper, but this doesn't mean the quality is weaker. I've played a lot with a french copy, and the cards don't wear.


To be fair to Bruno, I must say that the design is quite enjoyable, and the components still need to pass the test of time.

However, first impressions show card scuffing and produce a high expectation that the boards are going to tear apart since they don't have a tape under the lining to protect the fold. Card text is less and less important as one gets used to the properties of the characters, or you could use the manual as a player aid, or make your own player aids. But if you are going to put role cards into sleeves and make player aids for larger text description, then it may seem that you have paid a professional price for an amature production. Maybe it's because I have been spoiled by very good quality in most games I own, but this situation makes it harder to decide ok I 'll go ahead and buy this.

As a closer let me revise on the word "terrible." I must admit now that I am reading it again it may be improper. I should have used "sub standard" instead. It is all a matter of perspective after all.
 
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Gary Averett
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My main complaint is with the character cards, the version that I played had chipped cards right out of the box and the character cards are physically longer than standard cards so they can't be sleeved (the character cards get the most use during play). The board (square) did not lay flat, but that wasn't really a big deal.
 
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Geo
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As i value good quality a lot, this is one less game for me to buy this year...
 
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I'm with Barnes on this one. I own this game and it's no better or worse than my copy of El Grande or my Winner's Circle (where my board split the first time I tried to get it to lay flat).

There are really just minor glitches... well, one that I noticed, which was some missing letters on a couple of cards. The bulk of the carping here seems to be about the plastic insert (just throw it away, then you'll feel soooooo much better) and not being able to open the box because it's shiny.

Hmmmm. I just went out, pulled my box out and timed myself for 12 successive openings of the box. The average was 1.6 seconds. So, I have to assume that Mission: Red Planet's box is viewed by some as overly complicated - meaning those people are hopelessly clumsy and probably lots of fun to play practical jokes on or trick into dexterity games for money - or there are some who see 1.6 seconds as a poor use of their time when they can get thier copy of (insert EuroSnoot game here) opened in 1.1 seconds. Considering that I will probably end up playing this title 30 times.... so let's use that as an average for the game's replay value... that means the nitpicker's total savings in total time over 30 plays will be -> 12 seconds.

I suppose the question we must all ask ourselves before we decide to buy this game is: is it worth losing 12 seconds over? If I were you... or perhaps if I was an overly critical nitpickey EuroSnoot with more opinions than I had substance (read: dillitante) then I would definitely consider not losing those 12 seconds and I'd pass this title by, leaving it to the butt-kissers, fanboys, Ameritrash lowlifes and other people who's only goal in buying a game is to have fun.

But, if anyone here ever gets their brain into gear they'll see that writing a complaint about the additional time it takes to open the box takes quite a bit longer than the total time you'll lose in the useful life of the game. But who gives a crap about common sense, logic and good manners when there's a forum available to be critical in?
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Chris Johnson
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Bruno,

The square map fits fine, although it seems to have the same flatness issues as the round one. The problem with the insert, as previously noted, is that it doesn't hold the ships. Either you throw away the insert, or scatter the ships loose atop the rest of the components, neither of which is especially appealing.

I can say that after one play, the cards are showing wear, as are the boards; the creases are all loosing color. There are also several ships that are already splitting.

So, gorgeous design, good game, sub-par quality. Again, caveat emptor.

And DW, I'm sure the silliness and pointlessness of criticizing those who dare to voice their opinions is lost on you. We get it, we should all be good little sheep, and suck up whatever we are lucky enough to get. You can stop getting on your little soapbox at every possible opportunity.

(For the record, it typically takes me about 30 seconds to get the box open; maybe I have a bad copy, but the lid is too tight-fitting, and the high-gloss cover stock means that gravity simply has no chance of working, the lid must be slowly wedged off.)
 
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Aaron Cappocchi
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As someone who doesn't particularly feel the need to keep my games in ultra-mint pristine conditions (yeah, if there's errata I'll just write the corrections on the board/in the rules! surprise ), I rarely to never have an issue with production quality of a new game.

But this is the first game I've purchased that I can ever remember being extreely dissapointed in the production/construction values immediately upon opening it.

From the second the shrink wrap came off, I started to notice problems and little things that could have been done better. One would have been overlookable, after counting a half dozen in 5 minutes I was amazed:

- I don't mind the glossy cover, but it feels "loose", like sticker paper inexpertly applied to the box. On the inside or the box cover, one corner of the cover "sticker" is already peeling loose.
- Took over 20 seconds and a lot of shaking to open, though I haven't done the scientific method of repeating the experiment several times.
- Lots of astronaut discs stuck together, though they all seem to have separated OK.
- Misprinted cards. Will not affect play but kind of disappointing.
- One rocketship began to split upon punch-out.
- One rocketship cover layer tore upon punch-out - will need some surgery to avoid being recognizable as "the Utopia ship with the tear at the top." (or we will have to draw from the botom of a rocketship pile instead of the top)
- Mars board has a huge wrinkle / blister. It's just to the right of the bottom board fold, and it covers 25-35% of that quadrant of the board. It looks like the board was folded up or bumped before the art sheet had properly affixed/dried to the board. This is the biggest production error I have seen in a game I own. I am afraid this is going to tear and ruin the look of my game.

I should also note that the entire game smells and feels "wet" - these are probably "hot of the presses" copies, but there's a STRONG glue/vinyl smell to the whole thing and all the components feel fragile, like they could have used some drying out / settling time.

My copy is unplayed so far, so I haven't even begun to explore the wear and tear factor. After quite a bit of research and expectation, i am pretty sure I will enjoy the game. But I certainly would have been OK paying more for a sturdy game I could be sure would still be playable in a few years.
 
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Quote:
For the record, it typically takes me about 30 seconds to get the box open


30 seconds huh? Say.... you wouldn't happen to be up for a few rounds of mumbly-peg would you Chris? Let's say $20 per round? No? Well then, how about dodge ball or maybe lawn darts?
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Chris Johnson
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DWTripp wrote:
30 seconds huh? Say.... you wouldn't happen to be up for a few rounds of mumbly-peg would you Chris? Let's say $20 per round? No? Well then, how about dodge ball or maybe lawn darts?


Yes, DW. Whatever you say, DW.
 
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Nairb Attobas
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With regard to the box-opening issue:

My copy took a little bit of work to get it open the very first time, and only the very first time. After that initial struggle, it was fine. I might go home and test it a few times, just because I'm curious now.

Anyhoo, personally, I enjoy playing my games more than oogling over the boxes and materials, and since I suspect my copy won't disintegrate in the next 10 - 50 playings, I have no issues with the quality of my copy of the game, which is, in fact, very fun to play.

I won't cast aspersions upon other folks with regards to their happiness with the product, though, because I'm not them, and everybody has different expectations and standards. You can't please everybody all the time.

Quote:
As i value good quality a lot, this is one less game for me to buy this year...


My advice would be to see if you can look at someone else's copy, if the quality is a potential issue for purchasing. I'm inclined to say that the component quality isn't as dire as some are intimating. When I first opened the box, the game quality didn't strike me as being any worse than my other games.
 
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Ken B.
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Uh...DW...isn't Red Planet an example of a "Eurosnoot" game? Certainly a designer one. I got sort of lost during that whole bit.
 
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My copy took a little bit of work to get it open the very first time, and only the very first time. After that initial struggle, it was fine. I might go home and test it a few times, just because I'm curious now.


- testing update -

I got my friend and fellow gamer, Jumbo-Tron, to help me with the box-opening situation. We struggled mightily to generate a situation where opening the box was difficult. Finally, when we used only our thumbs, one thumb per box side, we managed to stretch it out to nearly 10 seconds.

I can only surmise at this point that additional thumbs would have gotten the elapsed box-opening-time up to maybe 15 seconds.

All this begs the question... how many BGG'er's does it take to open a box of Mission:Red Planet?
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Alkis Moraitis
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The problem with the insert, as previously noted, is that it doesn't hold the ships. Either you throw away the insert, or scatter the ships loose atop the rest of the components, neither of which is especially appealing.


Or you can lift the insert up, insert the ships in the bottom of the box, and re-insert the insert as my friend finally did. It's a good way to keep both the insert and the game pieces since you paid for them.
 
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John Barnes
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DWTripp wrote:

I suppose the question we must all ask ourselves before we decide to buy this game is: is it worth losing 12 seconds over? If I were you... or perhaps if I was an overly critical nitpickey EuroSnoot with more opinions than I had substance (read: dillitante) then I would definitely consider not losing those 12 seconds and I'd pass this title by, leaving it to the butt-kissers, fanboys, Ameritrash lowlifes and other people who's only goal in buying a game is to have fun.


That is the funniest thing I've read all day. Every time I read the kind of whiney, complaining, mountain-out-of-mole-hill posts that Mr. Tripp lampoons here, I can't help but picture the Simpsons comic-book guy typing away on the BGG forums.
 
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Michael Barnes
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I think a lot of BGGers weren't properly potty-trained...that's the only thing I can think of that explains how FREAKIN' ANAL some of you people are!
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Chris Johnson
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As a follow-up, I'm now being stonewalled by Asmodee for replacements for the pieces missing from my game. Which is a change of pace, as in the past they've quickly and cheerfully replaced missing pieces, as they should.

So you can add dodgy customer service to the reasons to be wary of purchasing this game.

As an aside, what is sillier, people voiceing their opinions, or people who only seem to want to shout down or shame those who do?
 
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Dave
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So you picked up a copy on the weekend, and Asmodee still hasn't expressed you your replacement parts? They should be lined up and shot.

I had no issues with the game components (in my copy anyways), and would strongly recommend anyone thinking of avoiding this game based on possible component issues to check out a copy at your FLGS before deciding.

In a completely unrelated note, the game is quite fun - but chaotic, as others have mentioned.
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Chris Johnson
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Almalik wrote:
So you picked up a copy on the weekend, and Asmodee still hasn't expressed you your replacement parts? They should be lined up and shot.


No. I didn't say anything like that, did I? They are refusing to provide replacement pieces at all.

Quote:
I had no issues with the game components (in my copy anyways), and would strongly recommend anyone thinking of avoiding this game based on possible component issues to check out a copy at your FLGS before deciding.


I completely agree, but I'd suggest checking out an opened and punched copy. I never said don't buy the game, I said caveat emptor.

 
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Ken B.
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SatanicEssence wrote:
fnord23 wrote:
As an aside, what is sillier, people voiceing their opinions, or people who only seem to want to shout down or shame those who do?


Definently the people who shout down or shame others for voicing their opinion. It seems the only kinds of posts I ever read from the DW/Barnes hate machine are posts that whine and complain about others. At first I found it hard to believe that people could whine so much in the guise of put-downs. But as time goes on, you realise that, yes, there are hypocrites out there, and we all have to deal with them.



Stop whining, Smee. Freakin' whiner.
 
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Nairb Attobas
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fnord23 wrote:
Almalik wrote:
So you picked up a copy on the weekend, and Asmodee still hasn't expressed you your replacement parts? They should be lined up and shot.


No. I didn't say anything like that, did I? They are refusing to provide replacement pieces at all.


What were you missing? A few of the astronauts? Or was other stuff gone, too?
 
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