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Subject: Reset options rss

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jim maher
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Hi I was wondering if there are downsides / issues with giving players the following reset options:

Quick reset

This is the reset option as per the rule book I.e an immediate reset except that all cubes including those on continuous effects must be put back in the bag.

Full reset

When a player has no cubes to draw at the end of their turn they declare that they are doing a full reset. On their next turn all they do is perform a reset as per the rules and can either retain all cubes on unfinished technologies and/ or continuous technologies of put them back in the bag. - their choice.

It does give the players two options for reset with a reasonably significant penalty for a quick reset.

I am interested as to whether anyone sees flaws and or downsides to this approach
 
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James Mathias
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jopm wrote:
Hi I was wondering if there are downsides / issues with giving players the following reset options:

Quick reset

This is the reset option as per the rule book I.e an immediate reset except that all cubes including those on continuous effects must be put back in the bag.

Full reset

When a player has no cubes to draw at the end of their turn they declare that they are doing a full reset. On their next turn all they do is perform a reset as per the rules and can either retain all cubes on unfinished technologies and/ or continuous technologies of put them back in the bag. - their choice.

It does give the players two options for reset with a reasonably significant penalty for a quick reset.

I am interested as to whether anyone sees flaws and or downsides to this approach


Is there a reason you don't want to play the game with the normal reset rules?

At the end of your turn, if you have zero cubes in your bag (meaning you cannot draw for your next turn) you preform a reset.

1.) Remove all cubes from your unused cube pile, advanced, and basic technologies, place them back into your bag. Except those on continuous effects, you may leave them in place or put them back into your bag.

2.) Remove from all ruins and cities any miniatures of your own color on the board.

3.) Draw 3 new cubes from your bag and place them in your available cubes area.

4.) Place any fortress tokens used to mark your player power back onto your faction power card.

4.) Pass the turn.

You don't lose a turn.
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jim maher
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Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

There is a long discussion in this thread http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1231638/rules-errata-discuss... about possible problems/abuses of the current rules on reset
This includes contributions from the designers as to how they had originally envisaged this step in the turn sequence.

We have been playing with the skip a turn variant but would like to introduce a quick reset option with a suitable penalty.

Just also to point out in the rules that you can leave cubes on technologies that have not been activated ie have not been completed or on technologies that have been completed and subsequently depleted due to a cube restoration effect.
 
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James Mathias
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jopm wrote:
Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

There is a long discussion in this thread http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1231638/rules-errata-discuss... about possible problems/abuses of the current rules on reset
This includes contributions from the designers as to how they had originally envisaged this step in the turn sequence.

We have been playing with the skip a turn variant but would like to introduce a quick reset option with a suitable penalty.

Just also to point out in the rules that you can leave cubes on technologies that have not been activated ie have not been completed or on technologies that have been completed and subsequently depleted due to a cube restoration effect.


Yes, I was involved from the beginning on that thread. You will also note that in the Official F.A.Q. that the reset rule has been changed, and works quite well, exactly as I outlined above.

The skip a turn variant is not official.
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jim maher
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Thank you again for replying. I appreciate the variant is not official and personally that matters little to me.if some variant works for people well good look to them official or not. My view is that giving the players the option of holding on to their cubes at the expense of a turn is possibly adding an interesting additional tactical decision for them to ponder.

To return to the original thrust of the thread my question was to as ask if anybody saw flaws in this approach from a game point of view.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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I'm with James. The errata'd reset rules (reset ALL cubes, except that you can choose to keep cubes on continuous techs) works very well, with the added advantage f being (i) simple and (ii) not open to abuse.
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James Mathias
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jopm wrote:
Thank you again for replying. I appreciate the variant is not official and personally that matters little to me.if some variant works for people well good look to them official or not. My view is that giving the players the option of holding on to their cubes at the expense of a turn is possibly adding an interesting additional tactical decision for them to ponder.

To return to the original thrust of the thread my question was to as ask if anybody saw flaws in this approach from a game point of view.


I strongly believe everyone is 100% welcome to play any game they own anyway they want. To each his own, and what not.

In your response it sounded as if you were unaware of the official rule change, and maybe thought the skip a turn variant was official, my apologies for overstepping with my correction.

As for flaws in your proposed variant, I'd need more information to even begin to give feedback. See questions below.

jopm wrote:
Quick reset

This is the reset option as per the rule book I.e an immediate reset except that all cubes including those on continuous effects must be put back in the bag.


What advantage/disadvantage does the player gain by choosing this option?

When can a player choose to do this? At the end of their turn? Any time?

If any time, does their turn end immediately after?

jopm wrote:
Full reset

When a player has no cubes to draw at the end of their turn they declare that they are doing a full reset. On their next turn all they do is perform a reset as per the rules and can either retain all cubes on unfinished technologies and/ or continuous technologies of put them back in the bag. - their choice.


This is a combination of the original rules as written, and tacking on the skip a turn variant, which is of no benefit, as they are now being penalized for doing what the game already allows them do without a losing a turn.

In order for this to be a decision anyone would ever make, there would have to be a true benefit to it, and as written I don't see any value in losing a turn to do a full reset, when I can always do a quick one without losing my turn. Except that they are forced to choose this option when they empty their bag, which penalizes someone for having either a small bag, or bad planning.

I would suggest you try the official rule change, I was hesitant at first to try it, as I liked the rules as written, but after giving it a shot, I can't imagine playing it any other way.

Last thing I'll mention, losing a turn is one of the most hated mechanisms in gaming ever. Especially when it's out of the player's control to prevent.
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Richard Dewsbery
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jmathias wrote:
Last thing I'll mention, losing a turn is one of the most hated mechanisms in gaming ever. Especially when it's out of the player's control to prevent.


This. For a whole host of reasons.
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jim maher
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The reason for the post is to get feedback so thank you for that. I apologise if my wording is causing confusion.

The proposal I think is straightforward. It only arises during the end of turn phase when B)the player has no more cubes in their bag. They can either do let us call it a quick reset at that point where they put all their cubes back in the bag including those on incomplete technologies and on continuous technologies then draw three plus they do the other reset actions moving miniatures out of cities etc. They then place the cubes during their next turn as normal

Alternatively they do nothing at the end of turn when they have no cubes in the bag except to indicate that they will be doing let us call it a full reset as their only action next turn. Next turn they do a reset as per the rule book The trade off would be that as per the original rules they would be allowed to retain any cubes if they wished on their technologies that have not been completed and also their technologies with continuous effects by doing a reset as their only action on that turn. There may be occasions where you have a lot of cubes on partially completed technologies and I think it would be worthwhile to allow players the option as per the original rules to retain them on the board albeit at a cost. I believe I am correct in thinking this option is now not available under the new rules. At no stage is there a situation that a player could lose a turn outside of his or her control they alone make that choice.

I believe there is merit in allowing let us call it cube forward planning beyond the reset as is provided in the original rules and it is a pity to lose that in dealing with other potential issues. Just my view.

I hope that explains my thinking and trying to see if there are game breaking flaws in this approach.
 
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James Mathias
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jopm wrote:
The reason for the post is to get feedback so thank you for that. I apologise if my wording is causing confusion.

The proposal I think is straightforward. It only arises during the end of turn phase when B)the player has no more cubes in their bag. They can either do let us call it a quick reset at that point where they put all their cubes back in the bag including those on incomplete technologies and on continuous technologies then draw three plus they do the other reset actions moving miniatures out of cities etc. They then place the cubes during their next turn as normal

Alternatively they do nothing at the end of turn when they have no cubes in the bag except to indicate that they will be doing let us call it a full reset as their only action next turn. Next turn they do a reset as per the rule book The trade off would be that as per the original rules they would be allowed to retain any cubes if they wished on their technologies that have not been completed and also their technologies with continuous effects by doing a reset as their only action on that turn. There may be occasions where you have a lot of cubes on partially completed technologies and I think it would be worthwhile to allow players the option as per the original rules to retain them on the board albeit at a cost. I believe I am correct in thinking this option is now not available under the new rules. At no stage is there a situation that a player could lose a turn outside of his or her control they alone make that choice.

I believe there is merit in allowing let us call it cube forward planning beyond the reset as is provided in the original rules and it is a pity to lose that in dealing with other potential issues. Just my view.

I hope that explains my thinking and trying to see if there are game breaking flaws in this approach.


Just to be clear. (total nit-pick) The rules as released are not the original rules, but a last minute rule change they made due to a few play-tester complaints. Unfortunately the rules as written are exploitable, so they reverted to the original rule as a official change (errata) to the rules as released.

I still feel like you can play the game however you see fit, but I would recommend at least trying the game with the official rule change. I too was against the change, but after playing I really prefer it.

I was surprised to find that the reset rule change actually made the game more thinky than when I could just leave whatever I wanted out. It was a pleasant surprise, and I'm glad they made the change official.

Of course your milage may vary.
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james bunting
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You don't get to place cubes, isn't that missing a turn?
 
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