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Band of Brothers: Ghost Panzer» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Scenario 19 - The First T34s rss

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Brian Knoll
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Overall

Great scenario. Surprised by how "powerful" the Russians became because of their numbers. And damn are those BT7s fast! Before I played, I assumed it would be a German blowout what with the 88mms and all. Now? It's hard to imagine the Germans winning!

Final numbers?

Ended on Turn 4.
Russians: 3 kills (2 tanks/1 gun)
Germans: 9 kills


Questions that came up:


1-Movement: Half-hexes/MPs?

Does moving into a half-hex/board edge when entering cost MPs? (My guess, yes, based on note about some tanks not being able to make it off first board on turn 1)

Example: When Russians first come onto the field form off-board.



2-Movement: Half-hexes: Legal spaces?

Can you move into half-hexes during play in general? (Not just during off-board to on-board movement) I think, yes, but wanted to confirm.

Example: this happened when trying to flank and avoid exposure to enemy fire arcs.



3-Vehicle Firing/Proficiency (prof) Check: Fire Attempt?

Can a vehicle attempt to roll a 1 even if the prof DRM would make it impossible to hit?

Example: Moving Russian tank firing at a German unit over ten hexes away with a Move Marker (mods = +4 +1 +1 = +6; with prof 5.



4-Vehicle Op Fire/Movement: Turn in Hex?

Can a vehicle turn in its hex for Op Fire against other vehicles? Against infantry?

Vehicle Example: Russian BT7 approaches a non-used German tank outside of its firing arc.

Infantry Example: Infantry approach a non-used German tank outside of its firing arc.



5-Vehicle Setup/Conceal Marker: Not giving it away?

If you set up a vehicle with its arrow pointing toward a hex-spine and then put a conceal marker on it, it's obvious it's a vehicle because of its orientation.

Solution I used: Setup "straight," like infantry, with conceal on top. When "spotted," owner of concealed vehicle picks a hex-facing and it stays that way (kind of like the cat in the box... unobserved, observed).


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Mark Saya
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Half-hexes are fully playable. See p.1, 2.0 Components, Map.
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Brian Knoll
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Thanks, Mark!
 
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Quote:
3-Vehicle Firing/Proficiency (prof) Check: Fire Attempt?

Can a vehicle attempt to roll a 1 even if the prof DRM would make it impossible to hit?

Example: Moving Russian tank firing at a German unit over ten hexes away with a Move Marker (mods = +4 +1 +1 = +6; with prof 5.


No. In infantry fire, a 1 always results in at least a Suppression result, but there is no guaranteed effect with vehicles.


Quote:
4-Vehicle Op Fire/Movement: Turn in Hex?

Can a vehicle turn in its hex for Op Fire against other vehicles? Against infantry?

Vehicle Example: Russian BT7 approaches a non-used German tank outside of its firing arc.

Infantry Example: Infantry approach a non-used German tank outside of its firing arc.


Yes to both for Op Fire. Note that if they fail their Prof Check, they don't turn to face the threat.

For Final Op Fire it can ONLY occur at 1 hex away and against infantry, it can NOT turn.


Quote:
5-Vehicle Setup/Conceal Marker: Not giving it away?

If you set up a vehicle with its arrow pointing toward a hex-spine and then put a conceal marker on it, it's obvious it's a vehicle because of its orientation.

Solution I used: Setup "straight," like infantry, with conceal on top. When "spotted," owner of concealed vehicle picks a hex-facing and it stays that way (kind of like the cat in the box... unobserved, observed).


I just set up infantry with the top of the counter also facing a hex spine. If using the optional flank rule for infantry, the infantry sets up the same way as the vehicles/guns.
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michael esposito
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brianeknoll wrote:

Now? It's hard to imagine the Germans winning!


Agreed. Played twice. Russians won both times. 88s are real vulnerable. If German armor stays back, you'll lose those precious 88s. If Armor advances, they will be overrun with Russian quantity.
It all comes down to the Russkies making their proficiency rolls...at 400 yrs the Russians get a 50% chance. The Germans get 90% but more than likely 80 or 70 if they have to move the turret, or Russians on the move.


Very tough for the Germans!
 
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Norman Smith
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I think the scenario can swing either way. That Command Point gets the German firing off the first shot each turn and over the course of several turns, that is a considerable advantage. German tanks can manoeuvre and still fire and stand a reasonable chance of hitting because of their high proficiency, while the Russians are rubbish at doing that - so the German tanks can 'run rings' around the charging Russian tanks, so that the Russians do not get any easy (unmodified) shots.
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michael esposito
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If you do that, kiss those 88s goodbye.
 
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Norman Smith
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mike_espo wrote:
If you do that, kiss those 88s goodbye.


Not sure that is any certainty to that happening and even if it does, it does seem part of the narrative of the scenario that does not instantly spell doom for the German player.

The Command Point gives the 88's a first hit opportunity, which helps them and if any Russian vehicle has got close and takes up firing positions, manoeuvring the German tanks to sit outside Russian front fire arcs and then use their own high proficiency to still stand a fair chance of hitting the said vehicle after moving, while making the Russian vehicle having to turn before it can fire, which it is likely to fail due to the movement penalty when firing driving their already low proficiency even lower.

Out manoeuvring a lower proficient unit is exactly how the Germans succeeded against the 'on paper' better French and Russian tanks, which I think is what Jim is trying to reflect.

In the scenario, the 88's appear to be the scenario balancer and make it possible for both sides to win. They are the only thing that can take out the T-34's at distance (and that is what they should be doing), but in turn they are vulnerable and a good Russian target to get their easiest 2 out of the 3 victory points. Once the Russians get close the German player needs to be aggressive, not defensive or too focussed on losing 88's. Once the T-34 threat has gone, the 88's have served their prime purpose.

Here is a link to one of my early replays of the scenario (played in 2014).
https://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/ghost-pa...

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michael esposito
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Third time around, same result. Russian win.

So you're saying maneuver the Germans, if so then you're lowering their proficiency to the same as the Russians if the russians stay stationary.

Again then 88s are sitting ducks. I think the 88s need foxhiles to help survivability.

Germans were again overwhelmed by Soviet numbers.

Read your scenario. If the Soviets were to fire on the 88s, survivability vs the BTs and T26 are slim: 8 firepower vs 2 casualty...60% chance of kill otherwise suppressed 20%. Soviet proficiency if stationary is a 5 or 4 if outside of range 10....

Not good odds for those exposed 88s...they need entrenchments.
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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It is a tough scenario for the Germans, but I agree that maneuvre is the key to victory. Move to the rear of the Russians.

Also this scenario is VERY dice dependent, as it only takes a few lucky rolls to change the outcome, so play it more as an interesting experience and not a contest and then move on to the next scenarios :)
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michael esposito
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Agreed Brian. Germans rolled a lot of zeros..cry

I think it would be a much better historic scenario to either make the Soviets kill only tanks for VC, or give the 88s entrenchments, or at least move them back a few hexes.
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Try "Our Goose is Cooked!"
It is one of the best scenarios in the entire series and have a lot of tank maneuvrering
 
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Norman Smith
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The Germans manoeuvre not only to get good rear / flanks shots, but also at the same time making sure that the Russians HAVE to move if they are to fire at the tanks, crashing their proficiency. Don’t give the Russians easy targets (granted, the 2 x 88’s become favoured targets if the Russian tanks survive the ride in, so the game is all about accepting that possibility and not allowing the Russians to get that 3rd kill).
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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It is also worth remembering that just being on a hill (with the 88s)requires the soviets to pass a prof.check
 
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michael esposito
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No hills..on the German side....
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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That just shows me that it has been too long since I played that scenario 😂
 
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