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Subject: When there are no legal plays rss

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ARTHUR REILLY
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I assume that when a particular player has no legal plays on their turn, meaning they can't play a tile or a column anywhere, that they automatically lose the game. Or should that person just pass their turn. In the instructions it states that a player MUST play at least one column on their turn but doesn't address the issue of having no legal plays left. I'm betting the person loses the game when this happens but would love to hear others thoughts on the subject.

Thank You

Arthur Reilly
 
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Carl G
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I don't think it's an automatic lose since you're playing for points. If you can't do anything due to a lack of correct available pieces, the instructions say you can substitute a piece of another color. If you can't build the pagoda due to the lack of correct pagoda tiles, then the instructions say the pagoda is considered finished (under Miscellaneous). That should probably trigger endgame (3 finished pagodas).

Hope this helps!
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Tim S
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For the sake of argument, let's say that three of the pagodas currently each have a single purple column, and the other three each have a single red column. When the player starts his turn, he has only blue and green cards in hand and in his display, and does not have any special powers to use.

The question is, does the player have to pass his turn even though constructing at least one column is a requirement for a turn?
Can he do the alternative turn even though it says he must construct exactly one column?

The rulebook is very well written for this game. I think having no legal moves (which I can't imagine coming up often, if at all if you are playing normally) is the only thing it doesn't cover.

If this ever came up, my house rule would be for the player to reveal his hand to his opponent, proving that he cannot build a column, and then have the option of either passing or doing the alternative turn without having to construct a column.
 
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Carl G
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I think this might be covered by "Alternative Turn" under the instructions.

It says, "Instead of performing a regular turn you can opt to perform an alternative turn instead. To perform an alternative turn, discard any 4 cards (from your hand or open display) and construct exactly 1 column at a building lot and color of your choice, and gain the usual points. You must follow all other rules during this construction. After that your turn ends immediately with the Replenish cards step.

You cannot perform an alternative turn if you have already started performing a regular turn. During the alternative turn you can use only the special abilities of the Fan (purple) and the Dragon (yellow). All others are forbidden."
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Tim S
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Harl wrote:
I think this might be covered by "Alternative Turn" under the instructions.

It says, "Instead of performing a regular turn you can opt to perform an alternative turn instead. To perform an alternative turn, discard any 4 cards (from your hand or open display) and construct exactly 1 column at a building lot and color of your choice, and gain the usual points. You must follow all other rules during this construction. After that your turn ends immediately with the Replenish cards step.

You cannot perform an alternative turn if you have already started performing a regular turn. During the alternative turn you can use only the special abilities of the Fan (purple) and the Dragon (yellow). All others are forbidden."
I still assume that you would actually have to have a card of the color column you are building. I mean when it says you must follow all other rules during this construction, what else could it mean except that?
 
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Carl G
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I take "any 4 cards" to mean they don't have to match the color of the column you play. This is the rule that was made to prevent you from having an unplayable turn. The penalty is that you may only play 1 column and it costs you 4 cards.
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ARTHUR REILLY
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Thanks everyone for their thoughts and comments. I've since reread the rules and had completely forgotten the Alternative Move Rule. After reading them again and then reading all the comments, I believe the following way is in accordance with the rules and handles not only when there are no legal plays but when a player just decides to use the Alternative Rule for whatever reason. The person discards four cards and replaces them from the deck. Now at this point they can pick any 1 column which may be legally placed on the board and then places it and then that ends their turn. The only situation that I can think of where this wouldn't help at all would be if all six pagoda spaces are filled with pagoda's all just waiting for roof tiles and in addition the player has no special ability to help them out. So I guess in as much as it's unlikely for such a situation to actually occur, sometimes the rules of the game can't cover all the odd situations that might arise during a game, even when playing according to the rules. But again, the odds of coming across such a situation almost makes it unnecessary to bother covering it in the rules. FYI in the actual game played that raised this legal question in the first place was caused when my opponent drew 4 or it could have been 5 cards that were all the same color. That's why the expression, "Bad Luck" was created.

Thanks again for all your help and for putting those thinking caps on.

Sincerely,

Arthur Reilly
 
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Tim S
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Harl wrote:
I take "any 4 cards" to mean they don't have to match the color of the column you play. This is the rule that was made to prevent you from having an unplayable turn. The penalty is that you may only play 1 column and it costs you 4 cards.
Ah, yes! Now it all makes sense. Those 4 cards are themselves the payment to construct the column. Thank you for clearing that up
 
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Carl G
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Glad we figured it out! Have fun gaming!
 
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ARTHUR REILLY
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Harl wrote:
Glad we figured it out! Have fun gaming!


Speaking of having fun gaming. I recently got a copy of
Rondo by Reiner Knizia with the English rules. Posted a question in the Rondo Game Forum Section but no one seems to have answered it. So if any of you guys know this fun game, please check out my question there and leave an answer if you know what it is.

Much appreciated and once again, thank you all for your help with Pagoda.

Regards,

Arthur Reilly

(now on to the games)
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Andre Bronswijk
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Official answer: You were right. It is impossible to have no legal play, because you always are able to do the alternative turn, which still is legal.
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ARTHUR REILLY
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Thygra wrote:
Official answer: You were right. It is impossible to have no legal play, because you always are able to do the alternative turn, which still is legal.


Thank you for confirming this for me.

Arthur Reilly
 
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