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Subject: Which Expansion Pack Would Win In a Fight? rss

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Robert Fletcher
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In a one on one battle at 45 points between two Expansion Packs using cards only from the pack, which ships would wins?

Tucker originated this idea when discussing the value of the Hirogen Expansion Pack: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1286422/wave-11-preview-hiro...

He originally opined about a 40 point fleet, but for this experiment, I suggest 45 points to allow for the larger retail ships such as the Tactical Cube, Reagent, and DS9 (haha).

This made me wonder in general which ship has the best Expansion Pack.

Hirogen Expansion Pack
Alpha Hunter (26)
Karr (5)
Stalking Mode (5)
Monotanium Armor Plating (3)
Subnucleonic Beam (5)
Total: 44

Voyager Expansion Pack
U.S.S. Voyager (3)
Janeway (5)
Transphasic Torpedoes (10)
Total: 45


Something tells me this duel would end similar to the episode.
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J Lin
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If we're looking at 'how strong can we make a single ship using only one copy of its cards', these are probably your most likely competitors;

Sovereign (30)
Jean-Luc Picard (5)
Geordi La Forge (4)
Dorsal Phaser Array (6)
Total: 45

Given the proposed environment, a debuff of -2 defense can be pretty significant since that makes most of your opponents roll 0 defense. The number of ships that can keep firing through cloak in this scenario makes the flip to red less relevant, however. Dorsal is pretty much a no brainer for this format since it makes attempts to flank you difficult, even at range 1-2.

Borg Octahedron (40)
Tactical Drone (4)
Magnus Hansen (1)
Total: 45

Going straight for Borg is also an easy grab here. Range 1-3 360 and the movement dial pretty much kills most ships without backup tricks, and the Octahedron has wiggle room for upgrades. Same as above, the drone's ability to remove a defense die is significant in this format, with Hansen discarding to prevent you from losing a drone token for the first time you use it.

Borg Sphere (38)
Tactical Drone (3)
Seven of Nine (4)
Total: 45

Similar as above, the sphere is still good in this setting. Tactical Drone gives you a mini-lock for re-rolling, freeing your action choices up in general play and when facing cloakers. When your drones get low, the movement options of the Borg let them run off to regenerate and/or use the Seven of Nine actions to regenerate tokens to go back in for a fight.

Keldon (24)
Gul Dukat (5)
Captured Intelligence (3)
Boheeka (2)
Dorsal Weapons Array (3)
Tetryon Emissions (3)
Cloaking Device (4)
Total: 44

The Koranak expansion is pretty good in terms of choices and options. You begin cloaked and your opponent can't target lock you to pull of things like your Voyager's transphasics on the approach, and the Keldon's 180 firing arc gives it an edge in a 'dog fight' scenario after the initial pass. You can take Tetryon emissions at your leisure to give your defense the extra dice, either with or without cloak active based on what's potentially being thrown at you on the first pass, where you're most likely to take a heavy hit. Dorsal Weapons array gives you the ability to take a shot back when the Borg show up, and Dukat-Boheeka pretty much always go hand in hand. In a really bad situation you have Captured Intelligence to help you squeak by to help give you some evasive quality, both in the token and the re-roll.

Alternatively, you could take the named version of the ship and Gul Evek, giving you the blank re-roll for all of your defense die at 41 points. Taking Boheeka still works since you can still take the battlestations action and either use it on the defending or the attack.

IKS Koraga (26)
Worf (3)
N'Garen (4)
Alexander (3)
Advanced Weapon System (5)
Total: 41

Probably the least competitive of the sets, it also has the most reliable damage. Take N'Garen's action for the superior battle stations, and Worf provides a built in target lock effect. This pretty much just tries to rush the opponent with superior dice; since this scenario limits the number of tricks a player can field, it might win a straight battle with just overwhelming dice quality. The limited defense quality (even with the potential for a battle stations from Alexander if you live long enough, or the +1 from the Koraga's named ability) means that some of the more serious competitors can still one-shot you if you roll really poorly, and might very well two shot you before you can attempt to finish them off.
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Will Holsclaw
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Every so often I ponder making a video series with a sort of "tournament bracket" like this, with the contents of one expansion pitted against the contents of another. Initially ships would be matched according to rough "weight class," but then inevitably the little guys would face the big ones.

Trouble is, I don't have a particularly good camera for it, or really that much free time.

As for your Voyager, you're sinking 10 points into a one-shot that's almost completely dependent on luck. You have to be lucky first just to get the target lock for the Transphasics, then you'll (likely) be firing them unmodified, unless you save your TL then get a BS while staying in arc/range.
 
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H. Tucker Cobey
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The plating means that Voyager will struggle to get a lock, but it'll still almost certainly win by virtue of a strictly superior statline and having a 360.

There are also a lot of ships out there that just lose to the generic cube.
 
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David Griffin
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Ships that work well bare might work best for this sort of thing like the Klingons and the Enterprise E. Janeway and Voyager are both good cards but not together. The packs are really not made for this (despite the blind buy rules). They are not designed to configure the ships thematically because the cards don't have the right synergy within the pack. It's kind of a pet peeve for me.
 
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Matt Smith
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Voyager's got a 360, sure, but it lacks its usual anti-Aux support--combined with Captain Janeway, and the difficulty of getting the nimble Alpha Hunter in forward arc, an injudicious player could cut into their dice quality losing actions. The Hunter will be firing first at 6 dice. It has little to worry about from the Transphasics, though contrariwise, its Subnucleonic Beam is only useful to negate range bonuses to Voyager's defense, with no Crew slots filled on Voyager. That's not nothing, though, since the Hunter's best strategy is to use its free Sensor Echoes to keep to range 3 and out of Voyager's forward arc--soften Voyager up without taking return fire. Since it's firing first, though, a direct exchange of fire isn't necessarily the end of the world, but should still be avoided whenever possible. If Voyager does get a lock, and can fire before Monotanium Armor can get rid of it, though, Transphasics will wreck the Hunter--pretty tricky to stay out of both front *and* rear arcs.

I'd call it a fairly even match-up--slight edge to Voyager for 360 arc and potential for a devastating single shot, but good maneuvering (and arguably greater in-pack cohesion) on the part of the Alpha Hunterable to turn the tide against the 'big game'.
 
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H. Tucker Cobey
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The_Doctor wrote:
I'd call it a fairly even match-up--slight edge to Voyager for 360 arc and potential for a devastating single shot, but good maneuvering (and arguably greater in-pack cohesion) on the part of the Alpha Hunterable to turn the tide against the 'big game'.


...Unless, as is likely, the Hirogen maneuvering sucks.

I could also just go Voyager/Ablative/Transphasics, which would likely devastate the Hirogen even further.
 
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Matt Smith
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I'd anticipate Klingon movement--and at any rate, a free Sensor Echo covereth a multitude of sins, maneuver-wise.
 
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Justin Hare
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I would throw all the Borg XY ships out because of their inherently undercosted nature. But that's me complaining.

There are several expansions that can't get a ship to 40SP, much less 45SP. I would keep it to 40SP.

The Koranak, Koraga, Negh'var, Maht-H'a, Valdore, Battlecruiser should all do really well.
 
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Tom Coon
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Well the DS9 has pointy parts good for stabbing although the angle is odd, while the oversized cube I guess is somewhat hefty, good for bludgeoning...but probably hollow. The tactical cube might actually be easier to bludgeon with given its concentration of mass. In either case you could always fill the cubes with lead to improve your chances...although that would be going outside the components of the expansion pack.

And no one ever suspects the Vo....
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Justin Hare
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Zinvictus wrote:
Well the DS9 has pointy parts good for stabbing although the angle is odd, while the oversized cube I guess is somewhat hefty, good for bludgeoning...but probably hollow. The tactical cube might actually be easier to bludgeon with given its concentration of mass. In either case you could always fill the cubes with lead to improve your chances...although that would be going outside the components of the expansion pack.

And no one ever suspects the Vo....


At this point, just sharpen the wings of the Praetus and make yourself a little razor batarang.

 
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Dr Vulcan
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Back in the day, Wizkids unofficially recommend that you use the sphere to toss at your friends while saying resistance is futile. The ball shape would make it easy to toss. I would vote that due to its accuracy at range or the new super cube due to its mass and good edges.
 
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